Following the growth lines

[Loa]

Hello,

First post here, already enjoying the great info I've found!

I'm a novice bowyer, and up to now I've made 4, ash, self-bows in the flatbow style. Each time I followed the Bowyer's Bible advice: the back of my bows always follow a single growth ring. I've yet to break a bow with this method, and my bows (ranging from 27# to 40#) shoot very well.

The only problem is finding the perfect boards. I've made only four bows so far because I've only managed to find 4 such board.

What do you guys think: just how important is it to have a single growth ring on the back of a self-bow?

Thanks

Loa

[SourOwl]

LOA - that's a question thats been a topic of bowyers for centuries;  and the answer is best handled in "generalities".  generally, its better to follow one growth ring.   some woods will perform well without doing this, but all woods perform better if you do.  Generally, a bow that is backed with a material with stretching and protecting qualities will allow violated growth rings better.  

Myself, I follow the growth rings.  never had a bow blow up on me.   Your friend, sourowl.

[Loa]

Hello,

Thanks for your input, SourOwl. I've never had a bow blow on me either, even my first, and I'd like to keep it that way! :-D

On the other hand, unless I'm willing to go out, find and fell a foot thick ash tree (something I don't know how to do safely!), I'm stuck with my lumberyard. I've found 4 such perfect boards in about 7-8 visits, since last year.

4 boards in a year is quite limited!

Loa

[SEMO_HUNTER]

If you decide to step away from boards and go with a stave you will need to chase a ring or the bow will fail. At least on "most" woods that is, there are some that are nearly solid "white woods" that have rings so small they are barely visible and I've read guys not even removing the sapwood first. But what I'm speaking of namely would be osage, which has very visible rings and excellent bow building properties.
Then you would need to maintain the validity of the ring without violating it to get good results, unless of course you back it with another wood then it doesn't matter.

Welcome to trad gang.

[Loa]

Hello,

Thanks for the welcome. I'm mostly interested in local wood/trees, mainly: ash, maple, oak and birch. Also, for the time being, mostly interested in self-bows.

Some of the ash I can get my hands on has very high white wood to growth wood ratio (growth rings far between). Would such boards allow for more tolerance?

Loa

[Dan Landis]

Loa, Is there any Hophornbeam trees in your part of Canada?  This wood makes a great bow, trees usually are not too big to handle, and if you cut when the leaves are coming out, all you have to do is peel the bark and there is your back ring already to go, just seal the back and ends with shellac and dry .  Hard Maple makes a good bow also......Dan

[Loa]

Hello,

Is hophornbeam also known as ironwood? (Translating names between English and French is a PITA!) If so, yes it does grow in the south of my province, but I haven't been able to locate a lumberyard that carries it.

Two questions: I remember reading that cutting a tree down in the end of summer was the best time for easy bark peeling. Is my memory wrong, or does it vary by species?

Also, wouldn't using a small tree make for a very pronounced crown?

Loa

[Pat B]

Hophornbeam(aka ironwood),Ostrya virginiana!
 Makes excellent self bows!

[PEARL DRUMS]

Poplar and Birch will work as well. Im pretty I sure I seen them during my drive through Quebec.

[Roy from Pa]

What are polar trees Pearl?

 
I remember reading that cutting a tree down in the end of summer was the best time for easy bark peeling. Is my memory wrong, or does it vary by species?

Yes.

Also, wouldn't using a small tree make for a very pronounced crown?

Yes.

[Loa]

Hello,

Thanks for the inputs.

Roy from Pa: not sure I can correctly understand your first "yes". Which is the best time to fell trees?

Secondly, is a pronounced crown necessarily a bad thing?

Thanks

Loa

[PEARL DRUMS]

Anytime after the sap is up the bark will come right off, easily. Starting now in most of NA. I have split and peeled lots of wood the last few weeks and all the bark jumped off the staves.

[Bowjunkie]

Yes, American Hophornbeam is also known as ironwood. But be careful, there is also an American Hornbeam that is NOT related. It too is known in some areas as ironwood. It's also known as blue beech or musclewood. It's best to use the name Hophornbeam to help eliminate any confusion.

I concur on the hophornbeam comments. It's awesome stuff. It's like albino osage. That reminds me, I need to go find some more    

It's true that the bark on whitewoods peels more easily any time the sap is up. The reason some folks wait until late summer to cut their chosen tree is so that the present year's growth ring(which, ideally, will be the back of the bow) has grown to near full thickness, which may make it more durable.

As to whether a pronounced crown is a bad thing... It depends... it does raise some issues. For one thing, it makes it harder to build a wide bow or 'flatbow'. The smaller the tree and the wider the bow, the harder it gets. The inherent qualities of various woods require that some be designed wider, others can be made more narrow. Ash, for instance needs more width than hophornbeam. So, hophornbeam would be a better canidate for a smaller tree/higher-crowned stave.

But before you go running out there and cut a bunch of 3" trees, keep in mind, there are other benefits to the bowyer in flatter bow backs via larger diameter trees. Staves from really small trees can leave VERY little wiggle room in layout. And construction-wise; twist, lateral and longitudinal misalignment, any undulations in the surface of the back, or inclusion of any knots or wavy grain, etc... all of the effects/challenges of such imperfections are harder to deal with in a more highly-crowned stave than in a flatter one.

Don't get me wrong, good bows CAN be made from small diameter trees, even root suckers and overgrown watersprouts, but they're generally more challenging and one thing the novice bowyer doesn't need is another handicap.

For the general flatbow design and most variations, trees of about 7-8" and larger at the large end, including the bark, are sufficient for a relatively flat back.

[Loa]

Hello,

Thanks for the new info.

Bowjunkie, you raised an interesting question for me when you said: " Ash, for instance needs more width than hophornbeam."

Does this knowledge come strictly from trial and error, or is there a way to know in advance?

Right now I've only made self, flatbows out of Ash, and because I like the look of wide bows, I made them 2.5 inches at the flare, down to 3/4 inches at the tips. I do know that lighter (so narrower) bows perform better.

From that flatbow design, how narrower could I go? And how could I know if Maple/Hophornbeam/Oak would allow me to go a lot more narrow?

Thanks,

Loa

[PEARL DRUMS]

Buy Paul Comstocks "Bent Stick" and ALL your whitewood questions will be answered. The higher the specific gravity the more narrow you can go.........sometimes. Variable's and wood bows go together like pb & j.

[Bowjunkie]

There are also specific width suggestions for various wood species in The Traditional Bowyers Bibles. I'm not sure wich volume, but I know it's in one of the three. I don't follow that advice exactly, but it was helpful early on when I was trying any wood I could get my hands on, to give me an idea of the strengths of the woods relative to one another... so even while making bows 'in my style'... I could make some adjustments.

I've made selfbows with both ash and hophornbeam. My bows are basically flatbows with fully radiused bellys. The last ash selfbow I made was 68" long, 1 5/8" wide at the flares, 1/2" at the tips, and 64# @ 28". That's a wide one for me :^)

The last hophornbeam I made was 64" long, 1 1/4" wide and 57# @ 28".

If you don't already have them, the books mentioned above are valuable resources for the maker of wooden bows. Tons of great info in them.

[Loa]

Hello,

Pearl Drums: I've just ordered The Bent Stick, although it's not an easy thing to do in Canada... Ended up paying more for shipping from the States than the price of the book itself. Anyway, I had read some of Paul's writing in the Bowyer's Bible, and liked it a lot.

Bowjunkie, I've read all four volumes of the Bowyer's Bible, but I don't remember these texts giving all that much precise examples as to limits. In the Mass Principle, the width is stated as a variable (which it is), he says it varies by species, but doesn't give a way to know how to determine it by species.

Thanks a lot for your measurements. It will give me a very good idea of the limits, especially since I build bows that are in the 35#-45# range. On the other hand, I do go to 31" as my arms are very long. Would those 3 inches make a significant width difference?

Thanks!

Loa