Toasting ?'s

[PEARL DRUMS]

I have searched my bow building library and cant find any good info on toasting bow bellys. Can somebody give me the basics? I have a Hackberry flat bow Im working on. The bow is dry. Thanks

[SEMO_HUNTER]

Is that some of the Mongolian Tulip you just cut?

[Roy from Pa]

LOL Semo...

[PEARL DRUMS]

Sure is. I have been told that heat treating that wood is essential. So Im going to try it. I have plenty more to experiment with if it doesnt work. This bow was roughed out a day after I cut it, its quite dry already.

[Roy from Pa]

Pictures please?

[PEARL DRUMS]

Nah, no pics yet. I just need an idea of how the heck "toasting" works. What color Im looking for, what areas to heat, when to toast it. I have a ways to go before pics will be taken. I just hope it lives long enough to take them.

[SEMO_HUNTER]

How in the world did you get it to dry so fast?

If this stuff dries that fast, I'm gonna drop one today!!

Yes, pics please!!
C'mon man, I gotta see what it looks like. Email them to me if you don't wanna post em here.

[PEARL DRUMS]

I roughed it to 5/8 thick (its a working handle) the day after I cut it. I leave it in the house during the day on our furnace register and then sit it on our deck when I get home to feel the breeze and sun. When I tap it with something hard it rings back solid to me. When I tap the tip on concrete it rings back solid and vibrates tightly. Im confident its ready to go. White woods dry wayyyyyy faster than osage or BL.

[Rainshooter]

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,23338.0.html   hard to hear but you get the idea.

[Art B]

I like to equate green/but dry made bows to green arrows. They won't stay straight, have erratic behavior and have/produce squirrely flight.

Green but dry wood is still relatively soft. Can cause problems when bent backwards/reflexed with heat and frets easier than seasoned wood. That's just from what I've noticed.

But most of the ones I've done has been on hickory or osage, so don't let any of what I said stop you Pearly, experiment for yourself, and keep us informed...Art

[PEARL DRUMS]

I know just what your saying Art. The bow has been roughed out for about 20-21 days. Im not in a hurry to toast in today, I just wanted to know how to do it when the day comes. I plan on working on another bow for a week or so and then starting back in with the hackberry. The bow has 2" or so of natural relfex as is. I dont plan on bending the bow with any heat. I just want to temper the belly per a suggestion from a "pro".

[SEMO_HUNTER]

I'm fixin to drop some hackberry this afternoon. Gotta do some brush hawgin first so I'll have a clean place to work.  

[PEARL DRUMS]

Its nice stuff Chris. You will enjoy the bark and sapwood falling right off to a clean, smooth back. No draw knifein'. It splits very easily as well.

[Art B]

When you go to heat treat your limbs, the heat will let you know if'n the wood's ready.        

To get the maximum benefits from heat treating you have to set the limbs back and set their fibers in place Pearly. I like to start with a straight profile and go from there.

Make your form narrow than your limbs to prevent any blow-back from the heat on the bow's back.......Art

[Dan Landis]

Pearl Drums, The bow that I made for the trade this year was a toasted hackberry.  I followed the instructions on heat treating bows in TBB Volume 4.  If you follow these instructions and pay attention to what you're doing you won't have any problems.  I toasted mine to a medium brown color.  This bow took very little set and was a very smooth shooter, IMO.  
The only problem I encountered was in removing the prop twist that developed when I flipped the tips.  Every time I heated and thought it was corrected, it came back within a few days as the wood rehydrated.  I think it took me 5 tries until I finally got most of it out.  My stave was roughed out to basically the same dimensions you are describing, except I left my handle area fairly heavy.  Mine was left to dry in my attic all spring and summer, then by my wood stove from November to January till I started working on it. I guess what I'm trying to say is let it dry as long as you can before toasting.  Also, mine gained between 5 & 10 lbs after heat treating.  Hope this helps.....Dan

[PEARL DRUMS]

Good info Dan, thanks.

[eflanders]

Pearl,

Lately I have been using a torch to toast my belly lam rather than a heat gun.  It's hard to describe why I prefer it, but I just plain get better results and less issues.  Remember though that I am only working with a  lam of just .125" maximum thickness...

[Pat B]

Pearlie, if the stave is still green but dry seal the back well with shellac first before toasting.
  What I do is clamp the stave to a form and beginning at one fade I heat about 6" with the heat gun until it begins to turn color then move out another 6" or so but continue back on the beginning portion. This will increase the color of the previously section. Continue this until you get to the end. I like to get the wood to a chocolate brown color. Some woods turn color before and more than other woods so you'll have to figure it out as you go. Once I get one limb toasted I reheat the entire limb then move on to the other limb, doing the same as the first. I let the stave rest for at least 24 hours before removing it from the form but I still don't stress it any for at least 4 or 5 days or longer, depending on the R/H. You are better off leaving it in the form for the whole re-hydration time so you don't get temped to stress the stave.

[PEARL DRUMS]

My bow is tillered to 50# @ 20", I am shooting for 50-52# @ 28". The tiller is spot on and the bow has only taken on about 1" of set. I have shot it at a 20" draw 20-30 times and the tiller hasn't moved. Its lays dead flat after resting. Would now be a good time to toast the belly or am I too late?

[Philthy]

Have any of you that have tried "toasting" a bow found a problem with wood failure- maybe from too agressive reflex?  I was going to try it on my old hickory flatbow and figured I could take out that bit of string follow at the same time, maybe even a tiny bit of reflex