Author Topic: Help Needed (Read 421 times)

Fmrjarhead49 · « **on:** June 06, 2011, 12:16:00 AM »

I have been busy since the OJam, I have built 4 bows since. A 45lb reflex deflex. My first character bow "Mr. Ugly" that I later trimmed down to 50" and gave it to a well deserving child. A 60lb @ 26.5 60" ELB (My personal favorite)that had more checking cracks and worm holes than I care to mention, hence the name "Cracker". My first American flat bow "Storm Chaser" name is work related. It was made from a stave I picked up from Mike Yancey of Pine Hollow Bows. Most of the wood I have received has been from someones cull pile and that is OK, the way I look at it is, you do the best with what you have and you dont look back. The stave I picked up at the Ojam and from Mike were a pleasure to work with. Each bow taught me something new and each time I finished one, I was looking for more wood to start another bow. Things were progressing well I thought, until I ran into my latest project. The stave was given to me, like most of the others. I was told that I might be able to get a bow out of it, "if I could find the material and glue a proper handle on". Apparently when splitting the stave this particular stave receive a blow with the axe right where the handle would normally be and accidently cut deep into the bow wood. I was told that I should be able to just glue some wood on and work it down. I read some where in the PA mag, that you shouldn't glue osage to osage. It was because the early wood wont hold and will cause problems later. I had a piece of walnut available and I tried that...tried. 1st time I tried gorilla glue and it popped loose then I tried epoxy with the same results. At least I can see where some of the glue (epoxy) tried to hold. What am I doing wrong? Is making this bow a take down still an option or am I past that? If not, I need some guidance on that but willing to give it a shot. I know my work is rough, hell, I sit amazed at some of the bows that are posted on the forum. However, I am learning and I am getting better with each bow.

Any assistace would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,

Jarhead

My problem child...

KellyG · « **Reply #1 on:** June 06, 2011, 12:39:00 AM »

well if memory serves me correctly, I remember a similar post. The problem is it is bending thru the handle area. I think it was suggested that a over lay be glued on the back longer then the handle area to stiffen it up.
I am sure someone with a lot more knowledge than I will pipe in.

Fmrjarhead49 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 06, 2011, 12:45:00 AM »

That is exactly what is happening, when you say glued "on the back longer than the handle area" how long? Will the walnut work? Is it too soft?

KellyG · « **Reply #3 on:** June 06, 2011, 06:57:00 AM »

If I remember it was only a couple of inches longer, but take that with a grain of salt. I hope the true knowledeable ones peek in soon. Joe, Pat, eric, jaw, and many others heck roy might even know. Where you guys at.
Also if you were making take down the brass handle type might fix the issue. Brokentooth did a build along on that type not long ago. I am just brain storming and trying to recall that thread and who asked.

SEMO_HUNTER · « **Reply #4 on:** June 06, 2011, 07:36:00 AM »

The first problem I see from what you described is the glue your using. I personally don't like epoxy or gorilla glue, never had any luck with either one. I use Urac for wood to wood, or wood to boo, ect. or some guys have good luck with smooth on, both are bow glues and made specifically for wood to wood applications.
Second thing that might be causing a problem is that it's suggested to start your fades after the end of the handle lam wood section. That takes the stress of bending into the fade off the glue joint itself where it begins or ends at the fade depending on how you look at it. There's a nice article written on that with detailed diagrams and descriptions. I'll see if I can find it.
Can't remember who wrote it, but he used to be a TG member I believe and he has his own website.

I also don't see a problem gluing Osage to Osage? Don't know why that wouldn't work, but I'll see if I can find that article and post it here for ya if somebody else doesn't post it first.

Art B · « **Reply #5 on:** June 06, 2011, 07:40:00 AM »

Odds of success would have been better if you could have left more a pedestel effect to the handle area. But you go with what you got.

You're using the wrong type of adhesive Jarhead. Get you some urac-185 epoxy and I'll bet that'll solve your problem, or at least give you better odds of your handle holding. Works fine also for osage to osage handle glue-ups.........Art

SEMO_HUNTER · « **Reply #6 on:** June 06, 2011, 07:45:00 AM »

Here it is. It says making a bamboo backed Ipe bow, but the diagrams about adding a handle overlay are the same basic principle for any bow. It describes very well how you should lay out your fades to avoid seperation of the handle lam. Lots of good info on this site.

http://poorfolkbows.com/ipe1.htm

Good Luck!
~SEMO~

Fmrjarhead49 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 06, 2011, 08:34:00 AM »

Thanks guys I am on it. I have more handle material I will just start over with a fresh piece. What about the possibility of going take down? Would I be better off sorting this one out vs. tackling and animal such as that?

Fmrjarhead49 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 06, 2011, 06:00:00 PM »

I ordered a pint today from 3 rivers. Thanks again for your help.

Art B · « **Reply #9 on:** June 06, 2011, 06:09:00 PM »

I would give the urac a try first. If that does'nt work for you then a takedown is always an option........Art

hova · « **Reply #10 on:** June 06, 2011, 07:12:00 PM »

3 rivers sells pints?! :cheers:

-hov

John Scifres · « **Reply #11 on:** June 06, 2011, 07:20:00 PM »

http://www.nelsonpaint.com/Urac-PT.html

$5.49

Art B · « **Reply #12 on:** June 06, 2011, 07:48:00 PM »

Shipping cost and wait time is just so unreasonable through Nelson John. I went that route last time and won't do that again. I'd stick with 3R's.......Art

joekeith · « **Reply #13 on:** June 06, 2011, 08:01:00 PM »

I just got some from The Nocking Point, very quick shippin'.

SEMO_HUNTER · « **Reply #14 on:** June 06, 2011, 09:07:00 PM »

That right there tells ya how much of a mark up there is on archery supplies. But you always gotta figure in the cost of shipping too. I put a can in my cart but didn't go far enough to see how much shipping was. I did save the linky though.

Fmrjarhead49 · « **Reply #15 on:** June 06, 2011, 09:58:00 PM »

Well, when ya need sump'n and you need it in a hurry... I guess $12.95 a pint is one of those lumps I just had to take. Shipping was 5.99 but I will have it by friday in time to work on the bow this weekend. I read where you have to refrigerate this stuff after you open it. How long will this stuff keep in the fridge? Guess I better make sure the wife knows what it is and to keep the Grandkids clear...could be a "sticky" situation.

Fmrjarhead49 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 06, 2011, 11:06:00 PM »

Would you just go back with what I had or Osage? Or slip the walnut in there for looks but up further away from the belly? The bow is 7/8 thick, if I go with a fresh piece of wood, how much longer should I extend it into or past the fade? Or carry the fade into the belly and the glue the handle on top to cap it off? Sorry for the request for spoon feeding but the truth is I thought I had it all figured out and now I am just a little skeptical or I guess paranoid is a better word.

SEMO_HUNTER · « **Reply #17 on:** June 07, 2011, 12:41:00 AM »

The ad for Urac says it will keep in the frig for a year. I keep mine in the frig that's out in the garage in the bottom crisper and nobody ever gets in there but me, so mine is safe. I won't have to worry about it going bad cause at the rate I'm using it up it won't last 6 months.

Scroll down to the 4th pic on page 1 and that's what you want your handle to look like. Start the fade beyond the handle section glued on. The idea is for any bending to be before it gets to the glue joints on either end of the handle lam.
Rough up the surfaces to be glued with a band saw blade or sawzall blade on the bow belly and the under side of the handle lam then glue with Urac and you won't have a problem with it coming off.
There's also no need to clamp it too tightly, just until the surfaces mate up flush and you see glue starting to squeeze out, then that's good enough. Over clamping to tightly will squeeze all the glue out and you dont want that. Urac has excellent gap filling capabilities, so it will make up for most mistakes that we make.

http://poorfolkbows.com/ipe1.htm

Fmrjarhead49 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 20, 2011, 07:56:00 AM »

Sorry for no reply on my progress, haven't had a oppurtunuty to knock it out. I don't have an band saw, everything I have done is with hand tools so it is slow going. My first glue up was a failure , but I think I know why. So I pulled it off squared everything up and tried it again. I will start on shaping it tonight and we will see how it goes from there. Thanks again for all of your help.

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #19 on:** June 20, 2011, 01:33:00 PM »

Who ever told you gluing osage to osage was a bad idea didn't know much about bow making.

Osage to osage is the only gluing I do, with urac of course.

Here as my Frankenstein bow, parts glued up with urac, still shooting 6 years after it became "alive".

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Author Topic: Help Needed (Read 421 times)

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