Tillering and String (questions after reading other threads)

[Don Drake]

After reading some of the other threads today,I began wondering if I was tillering my bows properly.  I use the long tillering string until I can draw the bow down to 28".  At that point I put the real string on and do the fine tillering.

I use Al Herrin's design for all of my bows.  The non-bending handle section is 8" long (4" above and below the exact center line)and the arrow rests (left and right handed) are 1.25" above the center line.  Both limbs are of equal length.

I am including some pictures of the three bows I have made thus far and would appreciate any suggestions for future bows.

The first bow was finished in September of 2010, draws 65# at 28". The second bow was finished in April and draws 75# at 28".  Both bows are 63" nock to nock. and both have been shot above 500 times.  When I first made the bows, I am certain that they were tillered better than they show now.    :confused:   Would time and use affect the tillering of the bow?

The third bow is for my grandson's ninth birthday.  This bow is 45" nock to nock and draws about 25# at 16" (measured using a 2x4 and the bathroom scales).  I just finished sanding the bow and need to add the leather handle (over a Doctor Shoals foot pad!!)  This bow has only been shot about a dozen times.

Below are some pics of the bows.  In the tillering pictures, the arrow rests are even with the right edge of the post.

  65# Bow finished in September of 2010

   


   

   

  75# Bow finished in early April

       
   

 


I greatly appreciate all of the insight I get from Tradgang.  You guys are the best.

[Don Drake]

I had to split the message up:  Here are the pics of the youth bow.

  25# Youth Bow

   

   

   


This last two images are just because I wanted to show off my shaving horse and arrows.  Shameful I know.

   

   

The legs on the horse fold up for storage and transportation.

[Grey Taylor]

Don, I'm sorry that I don't have anything meaningful to contribute on the bows, but I'm wondering where you got plans for the shave horse? I like that design.

Guy

[AKmud]

The long string lies....plain and simple.  You will find most everyone here will agree that you need to get away from the long string ASAP.  Once you get the limbs bending a few inches use a shorter string to get the bow into a low brace and go from there.

[Stiks-n-Strings]

Don, The long string is just to get your limbs bending even until you can get a low brace of 3" or so.

 Your bows are whip tillered and show some bad hinges and stiff spots where the limbs ain't bending even and sharing the work load.

 The leverage changes very dramatically between the long string and short string because the angle changes so much. You want a nice sweeping arc in your tiller for the style of bow you are making.

 You need to do a search in the bowyers bench for the tillering gizmo. It is a simple little tool that Eric Krewson came up with that is a must have for every wood bowyer and shows you where to make adjustment on tiller as you go.

 Stiks

[George Tsoukalas]

I long string tiller out to 10 in of string movement looking for target weight at 10 in. and good limb movement. Then I string it.Info on my site. Jawge
 http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/

[Osagetree]

I agree with the above but, the bows look great. You're well on your way.
I only go about 8" with the long string then on the short. Long string them until just over brace height or between 6" to 10" then go short! Looks like you need some working movement in the fades, most of yours is midlimb and out. The tiller gizmo will help you a bunch. When you think you're done, there is the shoot in period where your tiller may need to be tweaked again as it can change if the limbs were not exersised enough in tillering. John Scifers and Eric K., I fell are this sites tiller guru's and they may chime in with more info soon. There are other member on here like George T. and PatB that realy put into worrds great advise that is understandable to the layman. Wait on their intput as well!
You need a pully system so you can stand back and see the tiller as you remove wood and exersise the limbs between each wood removal.
The layout design you're using is great for cutting in a shelf on a selfbow. But I don't care for a cutin shelf on a selfbow. i also think that design is tougher to tiller, just my opinion though on that and may not really be harder. Maybe try a symmetrical layout? You may find it easier to tiller.
Though some advice seems criticle, we are only trying to help!!! You've done well for a suite and tie    :p

I see your plains quiver in the back,,, and I have a question or two. Is it flat or round? Do you like the plains quiver over a back quiver? Can you show some pics as I am trying to make one for a friend? Much appreciated if you could show or send me some pics.

joe

[Eric Krewson]

You need a tillering gizmo, really need one badly.

I stay on the long string until the limbs are bending to approximately normal brace height. When I can run the gizmo up both limbs with a 1/16" setting and not make a mark except at the tips(which you need to leave stiff until you get on the short string)I go to the short string at low brace.

PM me your address and I will send you a tillering gizmo complete with instructions. They work like a charm and will tell you exactly where to remove wood to attain perfect tiller.

If you would rather make one yourself, here is a how to.

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=001047

[John Scifres]

I think you are saying you use the tillering string from start to finish, shortening it along the way...correct?  If so, that's what I do and have done for around 150 bows.

I can also read it that you are using the long string (how long?) until it hits the 28" screw on your tillering board.  That might not be aweful depending on how long it is.  

Bottom line is your tiller needs work.  Tiller is everything on wooden bows.  Whatever it takes; tillering by sight, using a gizmo or just a 4" straight edge sliding down the belly of the bow, you have to find the stiff and hingy spots.  But your first step is getting the limbs to bend evenly.

Here's how I do it:  http://hedgerowselfbows.webs.com/fromblanktobow.htm

[frank bullitt]

A True Testament of the Great qualities of Osage, for sure!

Happy Fathers Day, Don!

Some of the Best wood bowyers, have responded with "constructive critscism"!

I believe some great bows, are in your future, sir. Looking foward to seeing more!

[Don Drake]

Thank you for all of the help so far.  When I got home from DC tonight, about 2230, I put the real string on the youth bow and retillered the lower arm.  They are not perfect but at least are bending equally now.

I was using a loooong tillering string and didn't re-tiller with the real string.  I now understand why that makes a difference.  I didn't want to mess with the first two bows, as I have already been using them and have put the Tru-Oil finish on them.  All I had done on the kid's bow though was sand it.

I found out today that the grandson's draw length is 20", which would make it a 35# bow for a nine year, so I felt I needed to weaken it some anyway.

I will take more pics of the final tiller and post on Monday.  

I will also get more details for the shaving horse and the quiver.  The quiver is flat is based on Jim Hamm's (?) design from one of the volume of The Bowyer's Bible.

Thanks again guys.

[Stiks-n-Strings]

Don I would definetly take Eric up on his offer.

 Look forward to seeing you hang around the bench and learn all you can and share some insight as well.

 I learned most of what I know right here. These fellers won't steer you wrong. Once you get a good feel for tillering you need to keep an eye out for the bow swap next year. That always seem to get most of us trying and learning new things and it's a blast for sure.

 Stiks

[don s]

Originally posted by Don Drake:
[QB] Thank you for all of the help so far.  When I got home from DC tonight, about 2230, I put the real string on the youth bow and retillered the lower arm.  They are not perfect but at least are bending equally now.

you got home at 10:30pm and started working on the bow? welcome to your healthy addiction. lol. don  
       

[josef2424]

I used to tiller with the long string only, would get to 28", but then my heart would drop when i braced my bow and would see crazy hinges and stiffness I never saw. It is a much better idea to brace your bow during tiller as soon as you can.

[Don Drake]

After reading all of these comments, I realized that with the long string, the angle between string and bow limbs would be different as would the tension on both the string and the bow.  

I have re-tillered the youth bow.  My grandson's draw length is nineteen inches.  The bow is about 30lbs at a twenty inch draw.  He is nine and a small frame, does that seem reasonable?

The bow is 45 inches nock to nock and I have it strung with a 41 inch string.  I am considering lengthening that to 42 inches.

Here are some pics of the bow.

At brace as previously tillered (43" string)  

   

  New brace with 41" string

   

  Old Tiller

   

  New Tiller at 20", Arrow rest on the right

         

Not perfect, but better.