Author Topic: Glassed ELB - Feasible?  (Read 358 times)

Offline Dick in Seattle

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Glassed ELB - Feasible?
« on: July 15, 2011, 04:43:00 PM »
This may be your comic relief for the day, I don't know.  When you're unable to work in the shop, you're left with a lot of time to think, and, as we all know, that's dangerous.   I'm finding myself devoting a great deal of time and pipe tobacco to planning something that possibly ought not be done, but that I'll likely try anyway.  Since I'm unable to get started on it on my usual time frame - Right Away! - I figured I'd actually seek input in advance.   What a concept!

Brent showed up here early in the week with a new ELB, a Rudderbows hickory/ipe/hickory with horn nocks.  Actually rather nice.   I fear he ordered it too heavy for the shoulder he had rebuilt last fall, 45#, so he could only take a couple of shots, but with my short draw I was able to shoot a couple of ends with it before I tired and I enjoyed it.  He got cane arrows with it, first I've ever seen and I was impressed, they looked neat and shot well.  Don't know if they can be had in a  spine suitable for me but that's an issue for another time.

I want to build myself an ELB type bow so he and I can ELB together.  I know I can do the standard thing - hickory/something else/hickory - or hickory with a natural boo back, but I don't want to do that.  I got into bow building because I wanted a glassed version of an old wood bow I liked.  I was able to pull that off satisfactorily (at least for me) before I went Hill style nuts.   Now I'd like to explore the possibilities of an ELB that would have just enough glass in it to give it increased durability, if not increased performance, keep it from being inclined to taking a set, and make breakage substantially less likely, considering that I would be building for a light weight, 30# -35#.  

Needless to say, I have some ideas and questions…

First, has it already been done?  I wouldn't be surprised at all.   If so, what sort of layup was used?  Obviously, if there is information already out there, I'd like to get ahold of it.

If that's a "no", here are a couple of approaches I've come up with.  You can give me your reactions… laughing and/or throwing up do not count as helpful…

I want to keep the essentially deep oval cross section as much as possible.   The addition of any glass will certainly tend to reduce that.   My first approach, keeping glass minimal, could be to simply try using one piece of Core-Tuff in place of the usual ipe, i.e. hickory/Core-Tuff/hickory (or some other wood than hickory if something else is obviously better to use with glass).    With the back piece kept fairly thin, 1/8" or less and the belly piece at maybe 3/4", I'm thinking I might be able to get a decent D shape cross section.  

Note:  I'm figuring on a proper bend through the handle design, maybe just one piece of short tapered extra lam in the riser section, kind of like a power lam, mostly to thicken it up very slightly but without overly stiffening it.

My second idea, if the above is for some reason not a good approach, was to make a kind of hexagon design, think flyrod, with glass on both back and belly.   The glass strip on the back would be wider than that on the belly.   In the finishing, the corners would be rounded off, leaving a long bow with essentially trapped limbs on both sides. This would obviously be a lot more work and a much greater difference from the design and is not my first choice.  I don't really think this one is very practical, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Both approaches would presume fairly substantial tapering of the wood pieces to get tiller.  Unless there's something I just don't know (imagine!), I really think I could make that first approach fly.

OK… some of you wood bow guys who have built ELB's and some of you who have theoretical knowledge of the physics of different woods and glass together that I don't have, talk to me….
Dick in Seattle

"It ain't how well the bow you shoot shoots, it's how well you shoot the bow you shoot."

Offline Aznboi3644

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Re: Glassed ELB - Feasible?
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2011, 09:41:00 PM »
The only english long bow I've made is out of a straight grained pine 1 by 2 from Menards.

Belly is rounded and back is flat with corners rounded.  40-45lbs at 28" and only 1.25" of set.

Physically the bow is very light even for being 72" long.  But it looks like a warbow because of its thickness lol.

I have no experience with glass but I would think that placing glass in between wood isn't going to prevent the belly fibers from collapsing and taking a set.

If you are worried about set why not use an ipe belly and bamboo/hickory/ash back?

With only 30-35lbs you shouldnt have any set and even retain perry reflex if glued in.

Offline Ken75

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Re: Glassed ELB - Feasible?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2011, 10:07:00 PM »
Dick im not a glass bow builder but why not go with a glass back on a high compression belly wood to get your desired durability and look. clear glass over hard maple with a red elm core(belly). plus it would have the look of yew with that combo
just a thought

Offline Alex Lewis

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Re: Glassed ELB - Feasible?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2011, 10:26:00 PM »
This may sound wierd, but what about going s-glass on the belly and aramid on the back?

They both have considerably longer elongation to breaking point than normal bo-tuff type glass.

-Alex

Offline hova

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Re: Glassed ELB - Feasible?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2011, 11:28:00 PM »
dick ,
  (lol thats a great way to start a reply or letter.. ) i think if you were to start perhaps with an actual bit of yew , use the natural curve for the back , and call it a day ... would it really need a belly lam?

edit : i meant to say , put some glass on the back , and just have the yew and glass... can that even be done?(end edit)

anywho , im sure if you get the sketchpad out , you'll get what youre lookin for 'fore too long.
your stuff always inspires me to greater things. keep it up.

-hov
ain't got no gas in it...mmmhmmm...

Online Pat B

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Re: Glassed ELB - Feasible?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2011, 11:47:00 PM »
Dick, I think the glass back would be too much for a deep bellied bow like an ELB. A more rectangular cross section like the ALB (American LB)would be a better design for a glass backed bow.  With some of the less strong woods(elm, ash,etc) used in the early ELB style bows in Europe way back when a more deep rectangular cross section was used. The non stretching properties of the glass would crush the narrow belly of a true ELB. IMO...but I have only built one glass bow...and it failed!
  You might be able to accomplish this with a narrow strip of glass down the center of the belly that would take on most of the compression stress.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!
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Offline Bradford

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Re: Glassed ELB - Feasible?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2011, 12:24:00 AM »
All my research on the glass leads me to believe the same as the above.. that glass in the middle would not do anything.  The glass is to sandwich the wood so it can not break.

That being said.. what about using the actual fiberglass fabric and just smooth on it over the round?  I purchased some fiberglass cloth from 3 rivers a while back to do some kids bows.. was just going to glass the belly (side being stretched).  This way you have the ability to shape it and it will hold the wood from splitting.

Just a thought.. I am constantly trying to come up with new ideas to make it better / fun / just plain AWESOME.. LOL

Good luck
God gave you hands, use them

Offline Dick in Seattle

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Re: Glassed ELB - Feasible?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2011, 02:17:00 PM »
thanks, guys....   lots to think about...   might be I'll start with just wood...    like I said, too much time to think is dangerous     :)
Dick in Seattle

"It ain't how well the bow you shoot shoots, it's how well you shoot the bow you shoot."

Offline B M A

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Re: Glassed ELB - Feasible?
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2011, 01:44:00 AM »
Dick,
Talk with Steve Meyer, Damon or Jim Rempf at the TBW Rendezvous. They can lead you in the direction you want to go and one of them will probably have a stave you could use for this project.
Brock

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