Author Topic: Please describe your tillering process...  (Read 694 times)

Offline fish n chicks

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Please describe your tillering process...
« on: July 26, 2011, 10:42:00 AM »
I bet no two of us tiller alike, so I was hoping to maybe pick up some inside tips on a successful process. I use the gizmo, a lot, but have found if I rely solely on that, my bow can come in under weight. I've also learned that some folks don't like tillering the last "x" amount of draw on the tree, but have no idea how you can tiller without a tree or stick, etc.

All I know is my heart stops every time i'm up there pulling the bow to a new draw length. There's gotta be a less stressful way.

I think i've just heard so many break recently I forgot what it was like to be confident, and now I'm worried I won't ever make a bow over 40#'s.

Help me TG!

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: Please describe your tillering process...
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2011, 10:55:00 AM »
I havent broke a bow one since giving up on boards and sticking with stave bows. I love my boards, but the unpredictability will kill a guy. I use the gizmo the first say 16-18", after that my eyeballs do the job and I must say (toot-toot) I have some great tillered bows as a result. As far as target weight. If my tiller is good and my weight is there I stop about 1 1/2" short of my intended draw length. That gives me some squeeze room for sanding and unavoidable set. I usually can get a bow within 1-3# of what I set out for using that formula. I also shoot my bows ALOT after the tiller is good. I scrape, shoot, scrape, shoot, scrape until I get to my target numbers.

Offline Inuumarue

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Re: Please describe your tillering process...
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2011, 11:10:00 AM »
I have the miraculous ability to tiller perfectly to 5# lower than what I want.  Its so miraculous that if I aim for 5# higher than I want I still come out 5# lower.   I do everything on the tree.  I rough out the bow and then make sure everything tapers nice and smooth. Then its to the tree with a long string to get things bending.  I brace her as soon as possible.  Then from there its a combination of the gizmo, my eyes, and most importantly my hands.  The gizmo and eyes work on the tiller, but my hands are responsible for feeling the shape of the limbs. I want everything rounded off and no bumps, dips, or gouges in the bow. So far I've yet to break a bow due to tillering.  Most of mine I screw up before it makes it to the tree, or a wood quality problem shows up on the tree. But like I said, my biggest problem is coming in underweight.

Adam
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Offline Tom Leemans

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Re: Please describe your tillering process...
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2011, 11:39:00 AM »
I use Dean Torges' faceted tillering approach along with a tillering gizmo, which is an improvement on Dean's idea. A lot of people praise the Traditional Bowyers Bible series, and there's a lot of help there, but you should own a copy of "Hunting The Osage Bow". Owning a copy of Dean's "Tillering the osage/bamboo blank" is helpful as well.
Got wood? - Tom

Offline Art B

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Re: Please describe your tillering process...
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2011, 01:11:00 PM »
I only do stave bows, and here's my method:

I let may taper, be it side or belly, or a combination of the two, produce the taper I'm wanting. No gizmo required.

Once the limbs are bending evenly, and at or near normal brace height, go to my regular string. Start from there with an even or slightly positive tiller. Hand draw (no tillering tree) to desired length and weight. Little if any re-adjustment of tiller required, mostly weight reduction since the limb taper has already produced the desired tiller profile I'm wanting.

Certainly more work up front with taper tillering but less work on the back side.

When Comstock wrote that good tapering produces good tillering, and not the other way around, was true then, and still true today........Art

Online Walt Francis

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Re: Please describe your tillering process...
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2011, 02:31:00 PM »
I first shape the entire bow, including the handle area.  The bow is usually bending  on the floor to about 6 inches at this point.  Next, it is taken to 6 inches on the tree with the long string.  When braced for the first time usually pulls 50#'s @ 20".  I then make any needed adjustments then start the final tillering.  I do not pull it past the desired weight anytime during the process.
The broadhead used, regardless of how sharp, is nowhere as important as being able to place it in the correct spot.

Walt Francis

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Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: Please describe your tillering process...
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2011, 04:11:00 PM »

Offline Shaun

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Re: Please describe your tillering process...
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2011, 04:36:00 PM »
I rough out the bow blank with taper in width and thickness. Then get it bending some at floor tiller. Then on the cull to straighten and back set. Then I use a pair of post supports with a bar clamp to tiller to brace height - eyeball any imperfections in tiller shape and compare limbs with paper tracing. On the short string and the tiller tree with gizmo and eyeball to about 22" draw. Final tiller to just above draw weight with lots of shooting in. Then sand and finish with any dress up like handle wraps, tip overlays, etc.

90% of the tiller is done before ever going past brace height.

Offline fish n chicks

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Re: Please describe your tillering process...
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2011, 09:17:00 AM »
Thank you all!! It is good to confirm i'm doing some things right, and to take some new ideas in as well.


I think i'm still in the dark as to why one would tiller on the floor, rather than just on the tree or stick? Pretty much, I don't understand floor tillering.

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: Please describe your tillering process...
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2011, 10:11:00 AM »
Come up to the Elm Hall shoot next weekend and I will show you what and how floor tillering works fish.

Offline fish n chicks

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Re: Please describe your tillering process...
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2011, 11:18:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by PEARL DRUMS:
Come up to the Elm Hall shoot next weekend and I will show you what and how floor tillering works fish.
I might just have to do that! I sent you a pm.

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Please describe your tillering process...
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2011, 01:27:00 PM »
Ditto what Shaun said, just the way I do it.

If you are coming in under weight with the gizmo you are starting with your limbs too thin. I routinely come in 20# over and have to drop poundage.

Offline Adam Keiper

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Re: Please describe your tillering process...
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2011, 05:52:00 PM »
After roughing out the bow with a bandsaw and trimming the edges to final width, I then use a drawknife, spokeshave, long handled sureform rasp, or farrier's rasp to bring a uniform taper to the belly, leaving it fairly thick.  I then mark and cut facets with a drawknife and sureform rasp.  (I usually make radiused bellies.)  From there, I start floor tillering, alternating between reducing the flat belly and the facets, mostly with a sureform rasp.  (I normally don't use a long tillering string.)  

When I give it all the muscle I have and can "almost" push-pull string the thing, I put away the sureform, and use a #49 Nicholson and heavy Mystik scraper (or sometimes a spokeshave or Bowyer's Edge) to begin rounding over the facets.  After rounding the facets, I can usually just barely manage to push-pull string the bow at around a 5" brace.  (I try not to brace much less than that because the severe angle of the bowstring loops tend to dig lengthwise into the wood and try to split it.)

At the first brace, I'll check the tiller and make any major course corrections to get the limbs bending evenly.  Then I do the heat gun magic to create uniform reflex and bring the bowstring roughly in line with the handle.  

I proceed from there, exchanging coarse tools for fine, alternating between rasp and scraper, and fine tuning string tracking with a heat gun.  (The repetetive heat gun work is a time killing and frustrating, but necessary evil to perfect string tracking, since I don't like to take shortcuts and offset handles or even tip widths to compensate.)  After each bit of wood removal, I exercise the limbs on a tillering tree 20, 30, or 40 times.  It's interesting to see how the wood removal often won't register a change in weight or tiller until several pulls are made.  

At some point after string tracking is nailed, I finish the grip.  This often involves gluing  down two layers of suede leather on the back side of the grip, which I soak in superglue and rasp to a comfortably round shape (done in 2 or 3 rounds of superglue/rasping) to be sure the final outside surface of the leather is sealed in hardened superglue).

As I'm closing in on full draw, I start to alternate between scraper and 80 grit sandpaper.  When the tiller looks good and I'm several pounds overweight, I like to let the bow stand at full brace for at least 6, and often 12 or 15 hours.  I know some people cringe at that thought, but my motives typically lie in producing long lasting, predictable, and durable hunting bows that can withstand being braced long periods for days upon days of hunting.  My experience has been that once they're put through this boot camp, they don't budge later.  (Plus it saves the equivalent of scores of arrows for shoot in.)

The long sweat often drops the weight slightly.  If I'm doing any kind of rawhide or snakeskin backing or tip overlays, etc, I add them now (if not just before).

I do my final tillering with a fine cabinet scraper and 80 to sometimes 120 grit sandpaper, shedding the last pound or two with just the sandpaper.  I use the sandpaper in the final stages not so much for tillering precision, so much as to have established a very cleaned up bow before final shoot in.  (Sandpaper cleanup "after" tillering often sheds weight and may affect the tiller.)

Next is shooting in.  I've shot as few as 50 arrows, but prefer at least 100, and sometimes 200.  If the bow has undergone an endurance brace nearing final tiller, the shoot in seldom affects anything.  Still, I shoot in to be sure.  I shed any final weight (if any, just a pound or two at most) with sandpaper.

Then I fine sand down to 320, burnish, steel wool any horn overlays, and dye and finish.

None of that is hard and fast to the "T", but that's my normal procedure.

Offline fish n chicks

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Re: Please describe your tillering process...
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2011, 12:59:00 PM »
I'm sorry Adam, can you please repeat all that?

   :D   That's very descriptive and even more helpful.

Thanks for the great feedback gang. We'll see if I can put it to use and get back to making shooters instead of kindling.

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