Need to blow a little steam in the direction of folks who might understand...

[Mrs Stickman]

Lone Archer,
I can't condone lying to someone when asked outright if you own weapons.   It goes against the whole HONOR thing.

 It is discriminatory, kinda like us trad folk get with those wheelie boys.  We have a right to feel that way about our property and a right to voice it.  It stinks to high heaven, don't get me wrong.  

I am a proud gun owner, a proud trad archer and a proud hunter.  I will not lie about it.  I will not hide it from someone elses view because they don't approve.  Part of standing up for our rights as "weapons" owners and hunters has to do with admitting what we are.
 I would be more apt to kindly but directly let the renter know that I am not interested in causing a fuss but that I want to excercise my rights as a citizen of this country by owning "weapons" and using them for hunting/fishing purposes.  So I would have to decline their offer of a rental property.   It may not do a thing for them, but then again, it would put a "weapons owner" and hunter/fisherman in a honest and respectful light in my eyes.  After all, isn't that what we say we are???

Long Story short - the situation stinks, it's wrong. I am sorry that anyone has to deal with it.  Remain true and honest about who and what you are and be honorable in your dealing with other people. When they are confronted with your actions and your words meeting in the same place they may be able to recognise the truth and not the lies they are fed.

[BFinegan]

Walt disney and schools influencing how children view hunting is what scares me the most.

[jon]

BF,

You don't mean that Disney lied do you? You mean that the Mastodon taking care of the baby when the mother died isn't factual? It brought tears to my eyes seeing the compassion in the Mastodon's eyes for that little tyke:)
Give me a break!!!!
You can't get away from them; but you can try. I just moved to Montana to get around a "better" class of people. I have grown tired of defending my rights as a hunter.
Four years ago, I was run off the high school property where I was training on the bleachers for an upcoming hunt. Made the mistake of telling the nice plus sized female what I was doing when she asked why I was there. She freaked and started telling me why I should be a vegan and how she would not allow me to train at "her" school for such an unethical endeavor. When I refused to leave(I paid taxes in support of the school as well as my daughter attending), she called the police. I had my pack on my back and was carrying my bow in my hands but had no arrows. I was given the choice of taking the "weapon" off school property or being arrested. I tactfully retreated. I could go on, but I'm sure that everyone here has had similar incidents. We are just going to have to be dilligent and hang together. Present a good argument and show the rest of the world that we are good ethical people. Anyway, I've said enough. Good hunting.

Jon

[Widowbender]

With the Supreme Court's upcoming review of the DC case, maybe we will have a precedent that will send a message to the anti crowd. That companies' policies are a violation your civil rights. Antis are everywhere not just in OK. I know we have a crowd of 'em around here. The best way too fight back is to support the organizations who fight for hunters rights like the NRA and many others.

Killy, Please don't lump all the Real Estate Agents into the same pile. Some of us are actually pretty good folks and decent citizens!!

David

[brettlandon]

Ain't ignorance bliss!  Most tree huggers have no idea how their McD's hamburgers and backyard steaks and brats live their normal life.  Nor do they realize how they're harvested.  And the vegetarian's concept, which ignores the very teeth in their mouth, is far more confused than that.

  Look, I don't care how they live thier lives and I recognize their ignorance for what it is... a lack of correct information.  Some people don't like information that doesn't fit their 6 o'clock world view, and will simply not hear the truth.  Well, if it made them any smarter, I would tape giant truth clubs to my hands and clobber everyone I could find, but some people choose ignorance (stupid) and their ain't much to do for them.

I believe in my fellow man (and woman), and their basic intelligence to grasp the concept of where all meat comes from.  However, many people today live in people confinement areas (like hog confinement areas but are called cities) and as such know only what they experience.  This does not make them stupid (that I can prove), but it does limit their experience.  Those of us who are free rangers might not understand the natural instincts of the confinement humans any more than they understand ours.  So what do we do?

We must be polite, honest and helpful to these less fortunate bretheren.  We must take someone who does not know about hunting, hunting.  Get involved!  Teach archery at school, at the 'Y', take a kid fishing, hiking, bird watching.  Find a scout pack and teach them how to make bow strings, or bows; how to hunt and track.  If your on this site YOU have knowlege which is invaluable to others, so SHARE IT!  Instill the same love for the outdoors to our children and theirs, and soon that blissful ignoranc will dissappear.  And as it goes, so will the misunderstandings which places hunters in peril.

-Brett

[KYArcher]

Steve in Canton I think you totally missed the Point that was trying to be made!!

[jacobsladder]

I live in the country here in michigan and hunting is pretty much accepted...there are a few ...and i say a few that dont want any hunting on there land...i respect that ..and actually look at those plots as sanctuarys and a good thing... I did ask to hunt a place for rabbits awhile back..the land owner says " you hunt rabbits"... when we see a rabbit "we think of that as good luck".... i said yeah me too! especially if i get my bow drawn quick enough... the guy wouldnt let me hunt rabbits , but didnt care if i shot turkeys and deer... i guess all we can do is respect others property and wishes... I completely understand where you are coming from but havent had the problems yet...most of the farmers around here want the animals killed....too much crop damage...

[Jmatt1957]

had a neighbor explain to me why hunting was  wrong and how could I possibly kill such a beautiful animal (nice 8 point)I listened and told him to go back across my yard to his property.The next fathers day they were having a family bar-b-q I walked over and ask him how could he possibly be feeding his family meat that had been injected with who knows what and then had a huge metal rod slamed into its brain hung up buy its back legs and had its throat cut. Last time we spoke.

[pdk25]

Steve from canton is probably right (I'm not a lawyer) but it is disgusting nontheless.  It is against the law to discriminate on rental based on age, sex, sexual orientation, race, etc..., and I am sure that it is illegal to discriminate based on whether or not someone choses to hunt or own weapons of mass destruction such as a recurve and shotgun.  Landowners can prevent you from renting property if you have pets as they can cause damage but I don't know if there is any such relationship with weapons.  I'd be interested in hearing a lawyer's point of view on this topic.  I doubt that the ACLU is going to be stepping up to the plate.

[pathdoc]

I'm not sure that it is legal for a property owner to not rent to you based on whether or not you choose to own weapons as gun/weapon ownership is a constitutional right.  Just as they can not refuse you the property on the basis of your race or sexual orientation, they cannot use your weapons against you.

However, it is far more costly and time-consuming to make this argument in a court-of-law than it is likely worth.  I agree with one of the guys above...keep on keepin' on.  There are enough of US out there so as to keep a nice bowhunting (and rifle/shotgun hunting for that matter) quorum around our great big campfire (oh, do they disagree with burning wood also?).  Likely, their homes are built with more lumber than it would take to build 4 modest homes.  

My Dad is an avid golfer and he always tells me, "In life, head down, swing easy, follow through."  Good lessons.  It is too easy to argue with these folks about harvesting game, but they are arguing with anger and emotion, no facts, no history.  It is not worth the energy.  Much better to join other hunters by the fire and share a tale of the woods.

[Hood]

I guess I would have asked about knives. Do they allow knives? Couldn't they be considered a weapon? What about baseball bat?

Sorry to hear oabout your unfortunate incidence.

[nightowl1]

I lived about as far back in the woods a guy can live growing up. My grandad was in the timber business and part of his job involved scouting. He carried a machete (spelling?) on the dash of his truck. A cop pulled him over and wanted to give him trouble about having a "weapon" displayed in public. My grandad politely told him that "it isn't a weapon its a tool. Just like a screw driver its a tool until I make it a weapon. Heck I can make anything a weapon, but its a tool boy." He had a tough hide and flawless reason haha

[c ott]

Widowbender, I'm having a hard time being optimistic about that supreme court case coming up...don't forget this is the same court that by virtue of their ruling on eminant domain in the Connecticut case, attempted to eliminate private property rights. Not Good.

[JimmyC]

One's right to self defense does not end at another's driveway much less the home or apartment you are renting and RESIDE within.  

I doubt you want to live in a community so full of ignorant cowards, but the bottom line is, it's none of their business even when asked nor do I think it's dishonorable to not answer. (Some questions are so disrespectful they don't deserve an answer and that is not lying).  Live where you want and never apologize for excercising your God given rights.

[Willow]

Originally posted by OkKeith:

 Believe it or not, Hunters for the Hungry was turned down when they tried to donate hundreds of pounds of venison to the City of Tulsa's homeless shelters because some folks in the city were upset that "animals had to die" to get that meat!
OkKeith

[Willow]

Originally posted by OkKeith:

 Believe it or not, Hunters for the Hungry was turned down when they tried to donate hundreds of pounds of venison to the City of Tulsa's homeless shelters because some folks in the city were upset that "animals had to die" to get that meat!
OkKeith

I hate people like that, who dont want you killing animals for food. Where does all their meat come from????? Them and their pedestal. It disgusts me.

PS I'm in Oklahoma too!

[Steve in Canton]

I will stick to what i said before.  You can not compare this issue to discrimination of either race or sex.  The owners of the property are against weapons not who you are as a person.  This is still their private property even though they are renting it out and they can decide before they rent to you if they want weapons or not on their property.  Think of it this way, if you owned 20 acres for hunting do you have the right to not let other people hunt that property.  Of course you do and you are not discriminating against anybody just protecting your propery rights.  We have a right to own weapons, we do not have a right to carry them anywhere we want.

[Diamond Paul]

I agree with OkKeith, there are lots of people out there who believe in things that I don't like very much.  However, I will say that the person who wouldn't rent to you because of your "weapons" is also free to believe as he/she does, and is free to make a statement about those beliefs in any legal way he/she chooses, i.e., by not renting to you because of your weapons.  That's the problem with America: you have to let other people express their beliefs, even when they are repugnant to you.  Just remember, liberals are always spouting off about freedom, as long as it's the same kind of freedom they believe in.  We don't want to fall into the same trap.  Just my opinion.

[Brian Krebs]

I am not at all sure the supreme court is going to come up with anything good for us either.

 I have seen so many places where I was not allowed to hunt; by the land owning person- only to come back years later and find a mall there..that I could puke.

 I live in Idaho; in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the nowhere state.
 I still get confronted by antihunters all the time.
 The lady who lives up the hill behind me once stopped me from sneaking up on some mulie bucks; saying I had no right to hunt there. 'There' included my own property.
 She wanted it to be like it was ' when the Indians lived here'; and that is why she does not allow the hunting of hungarian partridge and chuckars- or deer or elk or antelope.
 I argue with these people in a not so nice tone. I have tried being nice; but it just didn't work for me. I explained to this lady that there were no hungarian partridge or chuckars when the indians lived here; and there WAS bowhunting.
 It does not matter to these folks; you just cannot throw facts into a discussion when those facts don't support the persons desires.
 Here in the middle of nowhere; there are more anti hunters than hunters. They sell their property and retire and move up here and before they empty their suitcase they are nailing up 'NO HUNTING' signs.
 The majority of those that DO hunt; are either shooting deer and elk off their porches while the elk they have fed year round come in for their daily hay --on opening day.
 These anti hunters are the first to complain about deer eating their plants; or getting into their garden. They also drive over the speed limit figuring deer are smart enough to get out of their way.
 It makes absolutely no sense; but they are quite happy to be in a state of no sense. Its easy to be an antihunter; because you need nothing to back that position up but your own right to have an opinion.
 Even if - as in the case of the wolf introduction program - animals of all kinds are being killed ; dogs-cats- horses- mules- donkeys- llamas- no matter.
 These people are generally not for animals; they are against hunting.

 They drink soy and feel they are heros to the milk cows; when the rain forest is being destroyed to grow soy- destroying habitat for all kinds of animals. Including the important ones - the pretty ones.

 There are good moments; I did have an antihunter once follow me along on her property; on her side of the fence while my dog and I hunted the other. She screamed at me for being a murderer; and all the stuff she could come up with. Then she scared up a pheasant; which flew right over the fence to me and ....despite my pleas for her to continue helping me hunt; she left in a huff. do tell.

 Somehow antihunters equate being 'civilized; with their position on hunting. Dr Jane Goodall studied chimpansees for decades; and seems to not have focused at all on their organized hunting of monkeys; and the eating of them. She summed it up by saying 'sometimes they do eat meat'. Yeah uh huh.

 We are up against the richest - most arrogant- closed minded- opininated- ignorant- concieted people on the planet. They can afford to ignore the truth. I watched a commercial for the world wildlife fund; which showed among other things; a picture of a tiger walking towards the camera ( while the perfect lyrics of a song played in the background- do listen to that commercial) and claiming that hunting is making the tigers extinct.
 They make big money off of lies like that. There are conflicts between tigers and people; as people taste pretty good. But they do have areas where the tigers are protected; and could live there for ever. Its not hunting that is killing the tigers; its the fact humans need more and more space to live; and tigers and people have a long history of not living together without people dying.

 Elephants in Africa are living good lives - as are other animals in places where hunting is allowed; and in areas where hunting is NOT allowed; they are dwindling in numbers. Hunters spend money to shoot elephants to keep them in check with the food supplies; and the meat feeds the people that live there - while antihunters pay for rehabilitation programs and other help the bunny stuff; while people die by the thousands without any help from them at all.

 These are not logical people. They have tried using common sense; and it just doesn't work for them.

 And HOOD; while Roosevelt talked "speak softly and carry a big stick" he would be arrested in New York city for carrying a big stick. Yep its illegal; but then New York is a safe place to live ! [sic]

While we do have biology and facts and all that stuff on our side; they have money and influence.

We have to take our pleasure when we can. I have an antihunting neighbor that wants to get out of a delivery contract; and so he ran into a deer with his delivery van. Not being the smartest person in the world; he smacked the deer really well; so well it sailed through the air and landed on his personal car - parked off the road and below it. Totaled both. While I do not feel good about the deer dying; I can remember the look on his face when I walked up and commented on his prediciment. He remembers my smile I gave him; and I still smile at him the same way- every time I see him. He is the first to yell at me legally hunting; or anyone else.
 See its not about the animals; its about having an ideology that you don't have to defend; and that gives you support with the ladies; and those in pursuit of the ladies.
 Remember the signs the anti hunters used to carry that said "prove your manhood in bed boys!". ?
 Well we have made enough progress that - that particular sign makes little sense; what with some of the prettiest girls out there doing the hunting now days ( ie; Tiffany and Vickii and others) and some of the most lovely and level headed women out there hunting ( we need go no further than Killdeer to prove that).
 We are making strides; but we really do need a big organization that can make pretty commercials that tell the truth to the masses.
 The antihunters grasp of the effect of commercials: is what is making momentum for them; and our lack of it: is what is endangering us the most.
 
   

[JStark]

That's horrible!  I have never been asked if I have firearms, and I've rented six times in California over the past 15 years.  

What has always bothered me is not ever allowing dogs.  I have a 65lb. golden retriever mix, and more often than not she's had to stay with family, because nobody will rent to a dog owner.