Dean Torges method

[Nesbo1482]

I just finished reading "Hunting the Osage Bow" by dean Torges.  I was curious if anyone else follows his methods such as shortening the bottom limb, and facet tillering with more oval limbs?  I have only made a selfbow with flat limbs that tillered nicely, but was wondering if there are any advantages to his methods.

[Pat B]

Deans book is specifiaclly for osage bows but some of his methods can be used with other woods. Osage performs well with oval limbs but other woods like hickory or red oak would be better with flat a belly. I don't make one limb shorter than the other as Dean suggests but prefer a symmetrical layout. It is easier for me to see tiller. I have always used a faceted method of tillering because it is a logical way to reduce the belly evenly. I just never realized I was doing it until I read Deans book.
  Deans method is a very good one but not the only way to skin a cat. If it works well for you, use it. If not study his method but find out what works best for you. Everyone does some things just a little different and none are the wrong way to do it if it works.

[Roy from Pa]

I also suggest making both limbs equal length.

[DVSHUNTER]

What they said. Dean's book is one of my favorite ones.  IT got me started in this addiction.

[John Scifres]

I bet I have made 100 Torges' style bows.  Overall, it is the best way to really learn how to make an osage bow.  Follow it and you will make a good, beautiful bow.

Be sure to go to his website at bowyersedge.com and read some of his other articles, particularly the one on "Tillering the Organic Bow".  I have adopted these to my own style, found here:    From Blank to Bow

[J.F. Miller]

X2 what John says.

I too have made a pile of osage selfbows and bamboo backed osage bows following the fundamental principles that Dean advocates. the virtues of these methods are many and I highly recommend them.

[Bowjunkie]

I'm another strong Torges-style bow advocate. I always make the bottom limb shorter to perfectly balance the bow on my middle finger. This also puts the bows geographical center, handle center, and string fulcrum points in very close and balanced relation with one another... much more-so than with those whose handle and bow center are at the exact same place.

I make all of my bows with radiused bellies, whether they're made from osage, yew, hophornbeam, hickory, ash, elm, cherry, etc. and regardless of whether they're selfbows, backed bows, trilams, or whatever. Whether or not a bow's belly is flat or radiused isn't as critical as its other design characteristics and how all aspects are coordinated.

[michaelschwister]

Many top lam bowyers use the shorter lower limb also, like Great northern and I beleive Dick Robertson

[Bowjunkie]

Yes, the same balance can be accomplished on wood/glass laminated bows, whether longbows or recurves, as can be done on selfbows, backed bows, composites, English longbows, etc.

[Roy from Pa]

There are many ways to make a nice bow, Deans is only one of them. In his book he says to use maso bamboo, don't even try to look for it because it doesn't exist. He uses moso bamboo.

[Jim Dahlberg]

Anyone who has had the opportunity to handle and shoot one of Dean's bows knows that he is one of the premier selfbow crafter's of our time.  Advice in his writings and books are right on the $$.

[PEARL DRUMS]

I build my limbs equal length and all my bows have flat bellies with slightly radiused edges, say pea sized or so. I have built several of both stylesand have settled on this style because it fits me and MY STYLE best. My grip, my draw, my anchor and my release. Im sure Dean feels the same passionate way about his preferred style of bowyering. Often overlooked in this discussion is the three-under or split finger factor. Its a big one when concerning limb lenght's. Just food for thought....or gas on a fire!

[rps3]

The pages are all falling out on my copy of his book because I have read it so many times. I prefer the "shorter" bottom limb and radius belly on osage. I tend to lean a little flatter with white wood.

[John Scifres]

I'll admit to a certain soft spot for Dean but he has put more thought into making bows and worked harder at making that thought understandable by the masses than anyone else I have read.  He is an intellectual and a craftsman of words every bit as much as a craftsman of woods.  

I once told him that I had to read one of his articles three times before I could understand it and I think it hurt his feelings.  He works that hard to get us to know what he is saying.

I wish he still contributed to the forums like in the good old days but writing a book and having an opinion makes you a target for anyone who has made a few bows and/or just likes to be difficult.  He got sick of that I know.  Lots of the old timers did.  It seems difficult for folks to answer direct questions with direct answers on the forums.  Present company excepted, of course.

[LeeNY]

John, Amen!!!!

[Bowjunkie]

I've read Dean's book several times and absorbed something more each time.

Like John, I told Dean once that I had to read over something a few times before it sank in and he said, 'Worse than that is the torture of scrutinizing/critisizing your OWN words dozens or hundreds of times to ensure you convey your thoughts effectively.'

[Bowjunkie]

Pearl, what's the difficulty with a shorter bottom limb for a 3-under shooter? I've made bows for 3-under shooters with the exact same dimensions I make mine, except tillered for their string hold, and haven't yet had a problem.

If the concern on a particular bow will be the added stress to the bottom limb, because the bow is indeed pushed to its very limits, couldn't we simply add an inch or two of overall length for relief, while maintaining a difference in limb length for balance apects?

[PEARL DRUMS]

Good morning,

I could add the length to balance out the shorter bottom limb on an already short bow. But why when I can keep it that shorter length with equal limbs and completely love it? Deans method is super fine, he can build super bows but it doesnt mean I have to be a faithful follower of the Dean Torges word. Its not about me being difficult or trying to carve some kind of path, I could care the less about my "standings" on the bowyers respect chart, like most of us. I do it my way because I LOVE my bows in my hand and at the target? Why cant another way be right to? Its just one more way to build a great bow. This fella posed a simple question about a certain method and left it open ended intentionally, I typed my .02 cents.

[DVSHUNTER]

To go back and re answer the question,   I do follow deans method. I have made bows with unequal limbs, but have since made them with equal limbs. I like being able to flip the bow if i need to.
 I do try and make by limbs oval shaped as much as I can. I try to make the whole bow "flow" together like Dean writes about.  His book reply conveys the drive and Passion in selfbow.  The one like from the book that sticks out in my mind when i see some bows goes something like, "just because It's primitive doesn't mean it has to be ugly.". I have seen and shot what I consider to be some of the best selfbow out there. Unfortunately I have never been able to see one of deans. A well made selfbow just feels right when you shoot it, when you hold it, it has a life of its own.  Then there are the others...
  I have shot some bows that hurt to shoot. Big, blocks, heavy, slow, and ugly. Sometimes all of the above.  When someone is starting out I can see making some mistakes and not ending up with a bow that is perfect, that's okay, they get better. Deans book tries to get a simple message out.  Put forth the best effort you can. The best effort, not good enough.

Any bent stick can fling an arrow. That makes em by definition a bow. Some people are satisfied with just a bow. I think because of deans book I will never be happy with just a bow

[Steve B.]

I built a 70", takedown, osage bow.  During the initial shooting I moved the shelf up and down the handle, from midpoint to 2" or more above, and noted the affects on vibration and arrow flight.  Limbs were equal length.  There was some hand shock.  I removed as much material from the tips as I dare.  I cut lower limb shorter and retested.  Later, I sinewed it, retillered, and shot it again.

I found shelf placement made little difference, oddly.  The smaller tips made a noticeable difference in shock.  The shorter lower limb improved vibration a little, but not much.  I found a big change in vibration came with changing the brace just 1/4".  The combined affects of all the changes made a difference and that's kinda how I go about fine tuning my bows.
I'm sure I could make similar changes to future bows and have much different results as each piece of wood is different.....?