50" Osage orange Selfbow Tillering

[Finding_The_Sweet_Spot]

Well I'm brand new here, so forgive me for so quickly attempting to take advantage of the collective wisdom of my fellow bowyers out there. However, I have some concerns over this piece of wood I do so love. So here it is. I just received a nearly perfect stave of Osage Orange. That said, it will only yield a 50" bow, and I'm not splicing this bad boy. In any case, I've been agonizing over the design, and here's why: 1) I don't want to splice 2) I don't want a backing to obscure the wood itself 3) I'm aiming for a 55-60# @ 28" tiller, which I know exceeds the norm.
   So here's the plan. Right now I've decided on a few items. Obviously this is going to be a flatbow. I'm thinking 2-2.25" throughout the limbs until the taper in the last 6" or so. I'm not planning a working handle, so this is all going to be in the limbs. My thoughts are to keep the belly virtually flat for equal stress distribution, and to slightly recurve the tips for both string retention at high angle, and smoothness in the draw.
   What I'm looking for is advice on feasibility. Does this bow absolutely need a backing? If so, what? My thought would be something elastic like sinew, but it's infinitely easier for me to get my hands on linen, which isn't very elastic. Also, I really don't want to cover this gorgeous wood. So for the masses: What do you think? Am I crazy? We'll leave that last one alone, maybe. I'd love to hear what you have to say. Incidentally, the bow I intend to tiller is well represented by the Hickory board bow on page 61 of the Bowyer's Bible vol. 1. Thanks!

[Shaun]

50" bow with non working handle is going to severely overstress the short working limb area leading to much set (string follow). I would make a bend-in-the-handle arc of the circle tiller if you want 28" draw on such a short piece.

[PEARL DRUMS]

I would also suggest a full working handle, and thats still pushing it big time. Draw length x two is a good rule of thumb, or at least close to that.

[vanillabear?]

[Finding_The_Sweet_Spot]

So I guess I knew I wasn't going to hear what I wanted, but that's just the nature of the beast here. I'm trying to make this wood do something it doesn't want to, which seems opposed to the nature of traditional bowyery in the first place. I suspect that my approach is going to involve starting with a non-working handle, then reducing it if necessary. Vanillabear, I think L/2 is going to be the initial goal for the draw length and I'm going to see if I can eek out a bit more without too much set, so we're on a level. @ everyone else: Do you think backing might solve the issue and/or have any of you applied backing after tillering? I mighr try to leave my options open there, if possible. Thanks all!

[John Scifres]

Go for it.  Take pics and take us along.

[George Tsoukalas]

Even if you get it to 28", which is a 5% chance, it will stack big time. With sinew a bend in the handle bow may go 24-25 in. Without it may go 23 in. Jawge

[scrub-buster]

This bow is 49 1/2" long and sinew backed.  It is drawn to 24".  Imagine a stiff handle and pulled back 4" more.  I don't think an unbacked bow will handle that and survive.

 

[scrub-buster]

And I like to get a stave to even floor tiller before sinew backing.

[KellyG]

Ok what about adding static re-curves on the ends like a horse bow? Wouldn't help out a lot? Say 4" on each end that would make it 58" ttt and if it is re-curved that would help with the sting angle also.

[Roy from Pa]

Sounds like the stave is pretty wide, I would not chance loseing a nice Osage stave, so I'd cut that puppy down the center and splice it together and make a nice longbow that will have a much better chance of surviving.

Or, you could go for it and lick your wounds after it breaks:)

[John Scifres]

I have made one 56" rigid handled, osage that was sinew-backed and drawn to 60# at 27".  It is very fast but a harsh shooter.  I have made a really sweet 58" bendy handle selfbow.  Anything shorter has broken or I never had the guts to pull them past the stack.

That in mind, and again, try it.  Take us along.

[Finding_The_Sweet_Spot]

KellyG, I'm liking your style. Trying out some static designs in my head. It is a pretty stout stave, so I bet I could cut the ends from the same stick without compromising anything.... Maybe I should just go for it, though. Hmmm.... Thanks again for all your input, everyone. This is helping... Heck, I even wrote Jim Hamm and Ron Hardcastle a letter about this!

[Roy from Pa]

I think ya otta just send me that stave, before ya go and shoot yer eye out:)

[PEARL DRUMS]

Just consider geometery on your bow building journey. A 50" total working bow can be bent into a 25" half circle, ie. 25" draw. Beyond that its not bending anymore, its now pulling the once started arc into an oval = stacking and breaking.

[Stiks-n-Strings]

here's a link to a real short one tillered out to 26" after it gets sinew it easily draw 28" but that is not my intention because this bow is intended for a special recipient.

  http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=008347

[Finding_The_Sweet_Spot]

That's a thought, Pearl. So if the handle isn't working, the limbs form two offset circles of yet smaller diameter. Essentially, I think I'm just going to play this one by ear. I'll post photos as it progresses. Right now I'm just isolating the back growth ring with my spokeshave. I literally just started this morning. I'll let you guys know. Thanks again for all the input!

[Finding_The_Sweet_Spot]

Stiks, you give me hope! I'm going to be making a flatbow out of this stave, so I figure with thin enough limbs I might be able to make it happen. That said, it might just end up as firewood, but winter is coming!

[Dan Landis]

If the stave is wide enough I'd splice it, cover the splice with a handle wrap and finish the rest of the wood natural.  As long as you get a good back ring there would be no reason to back it with anything but air....Dan

[Finding_The_Sweet_Spot]

Well, folks, in my haste.... I bet you've heard other threads begin this way. Yeah, I ended up not noticing a deflecting saw blade as I was cutting this stave to rough dimension. Ouch. So, I've got the stave down to about 1/2" in the worst spot. You'd think I would attack with less fervor and more care, no? In any case, this itty bitty mistake with an incredibly nice piece of wood may mean my kids finally get that bow I keep promising them. that said, all may not be lost. If I'm EXTREMELY careful and conservative, I may yet get a real bow out of it, albeit a lighter one than I'd intended. I think the backing is definitely a foregone conclusion at this point, and now we'll see if I have any skill with tillering at all. Wow I'm a moron. Maybe I'll spend the afternoon looking for good wood to harvest.