tiller and timing vs hand pressure

[AkDan]

I'm kind of curious as I dont have a ton of bows to play with anymore.

I've noticed on some bows almost need to be heeled were other bows dont like it one bit (causes a ton of porposing).

When a guy wants a bow or someone building a bow, what would be a determining factor for each...ie talking to a bowyer what should you tell them vs how would the bow be tillered/timed differently for each...a more even pressure or even higher (not straight wristed) vs a heavy hell pressured bow.  

I was tinkering around, nothing new...and noticed my current bow I've had for awhile now really does not like a heavy heel at all!   Lots of porposing.  

where as an old big 5 I had..and a few other bows like a lot of heel to them or they dont shoot right......

how does limb length play into this....

and does the heigth of the shelf above center of the bow play into this also?

[PEARL DRUMS]

High wrist, med wrist and low wrist are different kinds of contoured grips. The lower the wrist the flatter your hand. High wrist grips are like the Kodiak Mags have, just the "throat" of your hand holds the bow. Also keep in mind each grips changes your effective draw length by nearly an inch. As your wrist straightens out on the high wrist style it pushes the bow away farther.

[Glunt]

I put the throat of the grip at bow center on a high or medium grip and with a low grip I move the shelf and throat/locator up a bit.

[AkDan]

correct me if I'm wrong here....

a higher wrist or straight wrist grip something like an asbell grip is going to effectively put that pressure higher up in the bows grip ('lengthening' the bottom limb and bending it less), this should effect how much bend is on that bottom limb, vs the heavy heeled style of shooting Howard Hill shooters enjoy. effectivley shortening the bottom limb and bending it more.  It doesnt shorten it literally...in a sense you lopped off 1" of a limb tip.   But it definatly I would think have to effect tiller?!?!

Take a kids bow and you can drastically see the difference in what I'm talking about....even with your palm down you can still to a point keep that pressure on the hand at the web of your first finger/thumb.....now put some heel into it and see that bottom limb show much weaker.  now heel the bejeezers out of it and see how it reacts.  Its much harder to see literally in heavier weight hunting bows, but I would ASSUME the same thing is happening....and I would ASSUME this would drastically change the tiller and timing requirements?!?!?

This is a longbow question, heel down, and how the pressure on your hand is applied to a bow, and how it effects the tiller of said bow...and timing.   sorry for the confusion.  (sorry for the poor spelling also maybe I should have proofed read first LOL).  Not that it cant or doesnt have an effect on a recurve but i would think MOST recurve shooters with a low wrist on the typical pistol grip recurve are not heavy heeling a bow like in a more traditional Hill style of shooting.

so taking a hill bow....lets keep it familiar....put the pressure up near the rest in the throat of an indicator style grip...shoot some arrows.....now heel the bejeezers out of it and see the change (I think MOST of us fall inbetween here as an average).    For a guy whose going to heavy heel a bow...what kind of tiller would one want vs a guy with the same bow whose going to have a grip with a much higher pressure point (and I can only think to compare it to how asbell shoots as its easily defined and it definatly puts the pressure point much higher on the grip.  

In a nut shell...its doing a similiar thing as going from split finger to 3 under on the string....now you're doing it on the grip by using hand pressure and not literally moving your hand up or down.  

How much will it effect tiller....timing, and in what fashion?  and what would be the corrective measures for a bower who knows his customer....or one building for him/herself knowing a person has a heavy heel style of shooting vs a more high pressure point?

[AkDan]

Ghunt

Wouldn't moving the shelf higher on a low wrist weaken the bottom limb?    

I guess I am confused a little......

[Glunt]

If a bow was finished and you moved the shelf higher it would change things.  I layout the shelf and grip and tiller pulling from were the string will be pulled from.  I assume the bow hand pressure will be at center.

That said, I don't have a lot of experience with Hill style grips.  I know 2" above center is used on some for shelf height.  That would make sense to me as ona straight grip the center of grip pressure would normally be center of palm (or about 2") below the shelf.

[AkDan]

must be secret squirell stuff...lol!

Thanks Glunt!