Some tillering advice -thanks!!

[mwosborn]

I made my first bow a bit over a year ago.  Made a few after that - ash and hackberry.  Didn't turn out to bad - couple shoot decent some not so.

Did some major remodeling to the house and had little time to work on bows for the last 8 months!!

I had started this osage last spring and just now getting back to it.  It was a small stave with some natural reflex - 59" parallel design, 1 3/8" wide at fade - tapering to 1/2"at tip.  

Anyway...I am tillering now and need some help.  The limbs do not match one another unbraced.  They both seem to reflex out of the fades but the right has deflex while the left does not - making it a bugger to tiller for a beginner like me    :eek:

To me it looks like the right limb is bending a bit more just out of the fade and a bit stiffer in the outer 1/3?  I have and used a gizmo, but I think I am to the point that I am having to go by sight.

Any suggestions-advice greatly appreciated from the "osage experts" or anyone for that matter    

Thanks guys!

 
 IMG_1850  by  mwosborn1 , on Flickr

 
 IMG_1851  by  mwosborn1 , on Flickr

about 16"
 
 IMG_1852  by  mwosborn1 , on Flickr

about 20"

 
 IMG_1853  by  mwosborn1 , on Flickr

[red hill]

Nice lookin' stick, Mitch!

It looks like the right limb needs to bend a little more in the top third.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Roy from Pa]

Not bad Mitch, but if I was building that bow, I would have heated up the right limb before I started tillering it, and taken that deflex out to make both limbs symmetrical with the bow not strung. I believe you can still do that! Then like you and Stanley said, the outer third of the right limb is a tad stiff. I would heat the right limb and get that deflex out of there, then finish tillering it with the gizmo and that right limb should come right in there. I would shoot for a 1/8th positive tiller on the right limb also, assuming the right limb is the top limb. Both limbs also seem a tad flat right outside of the fades.  

The gizmo is a great tool and with a bow like this, it will not lie. Also I have found that taking pictures like you have here and then viewing them on the PC, I myself can see better where the bow needs some work when viewing pictures than I can standing in front of the bow in the shop.

So that's my theory, but I'm sure others will come along with their theory too:)

[WestTexan]

What Roy said and correct me if I'm wrong but with the right being a bit stiffer its pulling the left tip in and the left out of the fades look a bit stiffer to me...but I'm on my phone so I might not be getting a good look at it.

[George Tsoukalas]

Looks like the area just past the fades is a bit stiff. I'd get that working. Jawge

[John Scifres]

With the flexible tillering setup you have, you need to pay attention to what it is doing to the handle more so than the tips.  Look at the top photo where the handle is nearly level if not a little raised on the left.  Then look at the last photo where the handle is definitely dipping to the left.  Your left limb (lower?) is stronger than the right and is pulling that way.  That's also why, I suspect, your right limb is setting more.  Most of the bend in the right is in the middle third of the limb.

Take 20 scrapes off the entire left limb.  10 extra at the fade.

Take 10 scrapes at the fade and the outer third of the right limb.

[John Scifres]

Also, watch it as it bends and see if it isn't bowing up on the right as you pull it.

[mwosborn]

Thanks for the good advice guys.  Hope to have some time to work on it this weekend.

John - I moved my tillering setup to a new room that I added on to my garage and went with that flexible system.  I saw a pic of one similar here on TG.  This is the first I used it.  Do you think a solid fulcrum type is better?

Roy - it has been so long since I started that bow that I don't remember exactly what I did as far as heating and bending.  I know that I heated it on a caul and took some twist out.  I don't recall the right being that much different from the left.  It may just be taking some set as I tiller?  I have pulled it to about 22". Would it be ok to heat that right limb again?  Or do you think it would take the set again?

This was a short "sliver" stave that I wanted to practice on.  It dried for about 7 months before I started working it - maybe it needed to dry a bit more?  I have some much better ones still drying out.  So if this one doesn't turn out great its not that big a deal.

[Roy from Pa]

Osage is tuff stuff, I wouldn't be afraid to try and straighten that a little bit. I don't think it's set because in the full draw pictures, it  doesn't seem to be hinging.

[mwosborn]

Ok - I just searched all my posts and found a pic of this bow before tillering.  I asked for help last spring when I started working on it.   Both limbs were pretty straight with reflex right out of the handle.  Here is the link.

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=008300

Would this change any advice?  

Hope the link works.

[Roy from Pa]

All depends on how you want the bow to come out. You don't have to heat it and reflex it back, just keeping tillering it and even her up. It's not the un braced profile that matters the most, it's the full draw profile and how she shoots.

[mwosborn]

Thanks Roy -  my goal on this one was to gain some experience with Osage.  I think that is happening.      
You are certainly right on the full draw profile being the important one.

I did a little scrapping like John suggested and it does look a little better at the 22" I have been pulling it to.  Going to try and keep tillering out to my draw of 27" and see what happens.

In hind sight and watching it bend, I think I should have tried for more of a bend through the handle rather than such a stiff handle.  The bow is only 57" long and those short limbs are really going to be bending to get to 27".  Good thing Osage is tuff!

[Roy from Pa]

Actually Mitch the tiller is not very far off. I would weaken the outer 1/3 of the right limb.

 

[John Scifres]

At 57" long, you will definitely need to get the near handle wood bending more.  I don't think I would touch the outer third again after you get them evened up.  It will stack like a beeotch and probably get pretty whippy if you do.

The strap tillering setup you have is intuitively appealing but doesn't really mimic the grip in the hand.  I tried it once many years ago and abandoned it.  I have a rigid block that has a rolled up piece of leather as the fulcrum.  In the end, either work for a tillering system since final tillering should be done in the hand.  

Looks to me that you could move your hook to the right a little bit though.