I want to make a self bow, have questions

[marahat]

Ok, let me just ask a quick stupid question. Which part is the back of the bow? The part that's facing you when you shoot? Or the part that's away from you when you shoot?

[marahat]

Oh, and I may not have any wood ready to go based on what I'm hearing here. It's been under a lean-to and up off the ground but I didn't wax the ends of it. I'm sure a little moisture can probably get to it. The red cedar I have is up off the ground but it hasn't been sheltered. It's a HUGE straight cedar tree. I hope it isn't ruined. Most all of what I'm talking about is either up off the ground or in a shop building entirely...

[marahat]

Hey, I got one other thing. I'm filling up my own thread here. I was taught to make knives when I was in grad school in south carolina. I don't have a proper grinding wheel right now, and honestly, I'm just not as into it anymore. I didn't really get to learn from the guy for very long either, I'm not sure how good at it I am. It's hard. You have to be very precise when hollow grinding. But I still have quite a bit of knife making supplies. The amount I have I bought at a shop in georgia for a little over 300 dollars, so it's good stuff I think. And I believe that was a highly discounted price, that's why we made the drive. I was looking to either get rid of some of it or trade it to someone who could make me a knife or two in return. Are there any knifemakers in my area? I'll probably go post this same question on a new topic, or try to find a site that deals exclusively with knives. Although I do think some of my material could be used for making a gizmo, or horn nocks and what have you. Stuff for bows!

[scrub-buster]

The part that is facing away from you when shooting is the back of the bow.  Treating bow wood correctly from the time it is cut is super important.  White woods go bad very quickly.

[marahat]

What can I do to treat it? Do you rub parafin in to the ends? What would you recommend is the best way to treat wood after you cut it? Does adding the snakeskin help to stiffen/strengthen a bow a little bit (aside from looking really slick)? I would think it is similar to sinew...

[scrub-buster]

A lot of things will work to seal the ends; shellac, polyurethane, glue, paint, etc.  

Snake skin is mainly for decoration and to provide some moisture protection on sinew or rawhide backings.  It will not stiffen or strengthen the bow.  Some of the large python skins might be thick enough to add a little protection from lifting splinters.

You really need to watch Gary Davis' Rattlestick DVD.  It will answer a lot of your questions.

[okie64]

Scrub doesnt mean using an actual wood treatment on the wood. Hes talking about handling the wood correctly from the time it is cut. After you cut any wood that is intended for bowbuilding the ends should be sealed with shellac, wax, polyurethane, paint or anything that will keep the moisture from escaping too quickly from the ends and causing it to split. With whitewoods, I cut it, seal the ends with shellac, split it into quarters or halves depending on how big the log is, peel the bark and seal the back with shellac. With osage or black locust, I cut it, seal the ends with shellac and split it and then let it sit for a year or so. If you peel the bark from a fresh cut osage or black locust log you need to take the sapwood off at the same time or it will crack all over the place, learned that the hard way. You really should check out Georges website that he posted earlier, it has tons of great info on it.

[marahat]

Yeah but to cut a large python skin down to fit the bow, you would likely lose the pattern. I guess you could use the "sides" of the snake where the smaller patterns usually are. I don't plan on using snake right away though. I want to make sure I can do it before I ruin a good skin, ya know. So I'll keep it simple at first. I may even make a bow that is somewhat of a toy first. A little one. I suppose that means I would have to have a smaller tillering gizmo though (?)  I'm going to look for that dvd and go look at some others that were mentioned. I'm going to my parents place tomorrow, I'll try to get a survey of all the resources available. I know for a fact that they're getting ready to cut down a couple of walnuts, and an ash and hickory that are both standing dead. They just died though, would they be okay? I hope so. There was an ash out there that was probably 4 foot in diameter and was straight as a string for 16 feet and they let it rot. Unbelievable. I heard my dad telling someone that it was the biggest ash he'd seen. I'm going to make sure that doesn't happen again. I'm going to start saving for a portable saw mill. For one thing, I have a ton of family in the area as well and they all have alot of property too. I'm sure I could work something out for timber.

[marahat]

Oh ok. Yeah that's what I meant by parafin. I was going to melt wax and put that on there. I have rabbit skin glue too. I guess those standing dead trees are no good? We have black locust that I could cut tomorrow. It's all over. I'm actually thinking we may not have any osage but I have plenty of family in the area that does. My friend in mcalester has an enormous osage in his yard. Hey, does anyone else call osage orange a "bois d'arc"? pronounced bow dark.. That's what I always called 'em.

[marahat]

We actually have more hickory than anything. What is the smallest diameter you can use? If I have a hickory that is 3 or 4 inches in diameter, can I split it down the middle and get two staves out of it? Or do I need to find a bigger limb/tree? I know I need to go buy the dvd, and I will. Just have so many questions now...

[okie64]

I wouldnt mess with any standing dead whitewood trees. They died for a reason and the wood would be questionable for bowbuilding.The drought over the last couple of years has killed a ton of the hickories and ashes around here so you have to be careful cuttin them this time of year since its hard to tell whats alive and what isnt. Theres tons of osage around stilwell and tahlequah you just have to know where to look for it. Most of the time it will be growing along creek banks around cattle pastures in the valleys. Ive cut a bunch of it up around Fayetteville. Now that you're lookin for it you'll start noticing it all around you. Ive made hickory bows from trees as small as 2 inches in diameter. If you're dead set on cutting some wood right now I would suggest cutting some black locust and waiting another couple of weeks to cut your hickory. As soon as the buds start popping out on trees the bark will peel off very easily. If uou cut it now you're gonna work your butt off gettin the bark off.

[okie64]

Heres a few hickories I cut last March up around tenkiller and notice how the bark peeled leaving a perfect back right underneath it.
 

[marahat]

Man, we got hickorys like that all over the place. That's cool, I'll look for the locust for now. I'm not going to get to go out there today, hopefully tomorrow. If the back is the outside of the tree, like splitting the bow would make two staves and the outside is the back, that makes perfect sense to me. But what did that guy mean when he said that osage is great when you can have a "heartwood ring" as the back? Wouldnt' that be in the center of the tree/limb?

[marahat]

George said that. Sorry, George, I couldn't remember who said it. Sorry I called you "that guy". I apologize for that. But, what do you do to make it where you have the heartwood as the back? Do you end up shaving off a lot more wood that way?

[marahat]

Do you leave it as a little stripe running from tip to tip?

[mwosborn]

Some wood (typically called white woods) you use the sapwood and therefore can peel the bark and that is the back of your bow.  Others - like Osage - typically you remove sapwood and work your way down to a single ring of heartwood.  Often referred to as "chasing a ring".  With the hickory I would suggest sapwood.

[marahat]

Ok I see. So he wasn't saying to have the ring as a back, but to work your way down to that ring. Has anyone ever cured their wood under water. I just heard today that there was a man around here that would sink his in a pond for a year. How bout that? I got a pond...

[okie64]

Theres no need to put your logs under water. Ive heard of some of the oldtimers doin that but Its not really necessary. Wood submerged in water is protected from fungus and decay but obviously it cant dry out which is the main thing you are trying to do. If you handle it properly and keep it out of the elements you dont have to worry about fungus or decay. I would suggest you order the bowyers bibles volumes 1 and 4. They have tons of good info in them and will answer a lot of questions for you.

[marahat]

I did order something already that I saw because it was cheap. It's really old though. I plan to order a few more instructional materials, including rattlestick and the bibles you mentioned. Have you ever made one out of dogwood? I saw a few made out of that and they looked pretty good. Hey, I have a stupid question here, I've heard alot of people talking about how long the fade should be. I wanted to make sure I knew what it was. Is it the part where the handle transitions to the limb? And is 2 to 3 inches pretty standard?

[mwosborn]

You are correct on the fade.  Handle length and fade can vary but a fade of around 2" in fairly common.  I would second the DVD rattle stick. - that is the one I used to get started.  Also got "the bent stick" by Comstock and the TBB series.