Osage Orange SB...need tips

[RedStag5728]

Hey guys, I attended a bow workshop down in appomattox, va Feb 3-6th instructed by Alton Hill and there he taught me and a fellow student how to build a bow from scratch (raw stave) the traditional way (no power tools).

And here's the result!

 

 

Now as you can see the upper limb has a slight reflex/deflex and the lower limb is straight. I was planning on making a reflex/deflex form for this bow (my first self-bow) to get both limbs to have the same shape. To what extent should I go about doing so? I mean what would be the recommended dimensions of the form and how much should I bend it? I don't want to mess up and ruin this bow as it is my very first build and she's a beauty!

Once I get her complete (Want to get a reflex/deflex on both arms and still need to apply finish), then I can measure her pulling weight.

What would you guys recommend?

Thanks,

Randy

*Edit* PS: She's 63" NtN and Osage Orange, and would you guys recommend a backing or bare?

[Pat B]

Randy, congrats on your new bow. Looks like you did a nice job with it.
 I wouldn't bother adding the deflex but just reflex the outer 1/3 of each limb about 3". The bow will take on some deflex as you break it in so thats why I wouldn't add any.
 Will you post pics of the back shape and a braced pic? How long is the bow?

[Pat B]

...OH! on a seasoned stave, dry heat is your best bet for adding the reflex.

[RedStag5728]

Thanks! Yeah I am pleased with it, about 20 hours went into her, haha, but she's worth it. I put a note at the bottom of my post but she's 63" NtN and 66" overall.

Here's the back

 

 

 

and her braced at 5 7/8"

Upper limb-

 

Lower Limb -

 

Over All -

 

[RedStag5728]

Yeah we used dry heat (heat gun) in order to take some twist out of the upper nock. The entire limb was straight lengthwise and then kicked out at the nock to the left (sighting down the back). So we put a wrench with some weight behind it in a string (we used a couple raw staves) and heated her up until she twisted back.

Ok, so just work on heating the lower limb and get that limb to match the reflex of the upper limb? or should I do both and add a little more reflex to both?

[Pat B]

The outer 1/3 of both limbs looks stiff. You can add the reflex now then work on tillering the outer limbs so they bend and open up as your draw increases.

[RedStag5728]

Ok sounds good, thanks for the input! Yeah looking at the pictures they do seem stiff.

[Pat B]

Be careful of the inner limbs as you tiller. R/D style bows can be decieving as you bring the limbs around and you can loose weight pretty quickly if not careful.

[RedStag5728]

I haven't had the time yet to try bending it, so I think it'll be safer to properly tiller the bow before bending. I took an old 2x6 and traced the outline of my Redstag which is a 64" R/D longbow, and I'm planning on cutting that form out and using it. If I accidentally loose more weight than I plan I can always add a backing.

I'm really surprised you were the only one commenting     , I appreciate your help!

[macbow]

Hey Red, when Pat speaks folks pay attention.
He usually has it right on. So other comments may not follow.

[fujimo]

X2

[RedStag5728]

Oh ok, I guess I need to know folks better. Sorry for my ignorance    

It's great having such experience and knowledgeable folks here on tradgang.

[Evader72]

your bow looks great .. you had a good stave to begin with .. My first attempt was a piece of snakey Knotty Osage that snapped on me during tillering ..

I didnt give up and carved a limb ordered takedown hardware and finished with this .. crooked bent stick .

 http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a551/Evader72/a2732e3a-f739-47d3-80f7-910be6e6a5af_zps47099b9b.jpg

[RedStag5728]

Thanks Evader! I tell you what you made a great bow out of what you had! With our workshop I had picked the "best" of the worst. Believe me it wasn't the best stave to be had, we had to straighten out on of the tips, sighting down the bow it kicked hard out to the left.

After working on my research paper for school for 6 hours. I decided I needed a little break so I decided to mess around with the bow a little bit more. I merely, placed it on my tillering stick and drew it down around 12 inches or so. I know that's really light but I just wanted to see where the stiff areas are. And, I agree with you pat that the major stiff areas are in the upper 1/3 of the limbs but the lower limbs down by the fades are a little stiff there too.

I will hopefully finish up my paper tomorrow and then get back to work on it, scraping some wood down and pulling it a few times and checking it. I would also like to go find me a few trees in the wood to prepare to harvest for my next new build, after I get this one buttoned up. I think this time I will go with a hickory stave so that it'll be easier to work with and would be a great start for my first bow on my own.

I was fortunate enough with this bow that I had a little instruction and help. But from here on out, it's all me, except if I need more tips and hints from Tradgang!    

[RedStag5728]

Well guys...I have some devastating news...

Got done with part of my paper, it's nice outside so I decided to work on tillering my limbs. I started with the upper limb  slowly shaving and scraping off thickness in the belly of the bow and pulling it a little bit, flexing the limbs and then checking, de-stringing it and taking wood off again.

Well it finally got to the point to where the middle of the limb was bending good, but the outer 1/3 was still way too stiff so I began working on it, and after I took off a little wood and checked it and after the second time of scraping wood off to check the bending...this happened...

 

    :(            :mad:    
   
The back was all on one growth ring and I did not violate it, all my work was on the belly. The only thing I can think was that a crack developed on the side of the bow once I began shaving and scraping off wood on belly and I didn't notice it (the end of the crack was on my opposite; facing away from me). Judging by the split, it looks like it was mostly on the side.

Apparently I didn't catch this crack in time and by taking off wood and stretching it to exercise the bending the crack just got bigger until POW! Needless to say I am broken hearted as I put 20+ hours into this thing...but as always you have to look at the glass as half full, this is certainly a learning experience and I'll be sure to be more careful on looking for cracks more often.

Besides, it almost seemed too good to be true that I was going to have a perfectly tillered bow without breaking it as my first. I heard from somewhere that 1st time builders almost always have had their first bow break on them!

So I certainly am not going to let this bring me down and deter me from building another! But I surely did have high hopes for this bow! Oh well    

[Osagetree]

Shucks!

Was there a pin not close to the edge?

Looking at the side of the bow where you think the crack began, does the growth rings rise a bit towards the back edge?

[michaelschwister]

Come over the mountain this weekend to Elkton and I will give you a cured osage stave to start over.  We can fix this one with some sinew if you want

[Millhimes]

Good attitude redstag.Look on the bright side,now you got breaking one out of the way you don't have to worry about it anymore.Now you can break them with experience,if that helps--Joe

[DVSHUNTER]

See what pats advice will get you?    

Just kidding. Sorry for you loss.

[RedStag5728]

OsageTree, there is a pin knot near the edge, but it's about 6 inches from where the limb broke, and it's still intact. I was actually wondering how I could fix this one. Would it be advisable to or should I just chalk it up as a loss?

I was actually thinking about contacting one of our sponsors and getting a hickory stave or something a little easier, with my little experience I think it'll be worth it's weight in gold if I can get a quality bow from a pretty easy, workable wood as opposed to trying my luck with osage again. Osage is a pretty wood and makes a great bow I'm sure, but I don't want to mess up again.

Haha then again I didn't think i'd mess up this one! You shoulda seen the look on my face when it snapped, talk about a deer in the headlights look!      

Oh well lesson learnt!
 
Who would you guys recommend?