Selfbow/Primitive?? What do I have?

[Troy D. Breeding]

I need opinions as to what I have. I started this bow many years ago and was told by one shoot offical I wouldn't be allowed to shoot it in the selfbow/primitive class. When I ask why, his reply was "too much of an advantage over other selfbows".

I explained it was only made of wood and had no glass. Still, I couldn't change his mind.

After that I just tucked it away and moved on to building another bow.

Now I'd like to finish it and maybe even shoot it at a tournament or two.

What say you? Is it an advantage over the normal self/primitive bow to use this bow?

Yea, the riser if a bit fancier than most selfbows, but the limbs are nothing other than layers of hickory. Even the riser is nothing but wood. Hickory, Walnut and alittle Ipe.

 

 

 

 

 

The advantage in my book is mute. I hardly ever shoot for score. Just a chance to rag my buddies that want to shoot ah-la-natural bows.

Troy

[Dave Bowers]

Looks like a 3 peace long bow my on the modern side if you ask me.

[Troy D. Breeding]

Dave,

Yea, it was patterned after one of my three piece longbow. Still, no glass anywhere. Nothing but wood.

Troy

[snakewood3]

Beautiful bow but not a selfbow nor primitive by any stretch of the rules. Multiple limb lams being the primary reason it would not fall under those classes.

[Osagetree]

Traditional, Yes.
Primitive, No...

A very nice bow by any means,,, a real looker!

[razorback]

I think the crux is that with the design of that bow there is a level of consistency and precision that is not possible with a primitive/selfbow. Would work in a traditional class, I think, but not primitive.
Great looking bow though and deffinetly finish it off and show more pics.

[ZaneD]

Obviously not a self bow, but why is it less "primitive" than say, a BBO or bamboo backed hickory, or a tri-lam? Both are all wood, and modern glues are used to hold both together. The only difference I see is the fact that metal is used to bolt the limbs on. Why does it matter if it has a modern appearance?

I say, if you beat me in a shoot, I wouldn't be upset at all. The only ones who'd say you have an "unfair advantage"  are the complainers that you deal with in every group, who are always looking for an excuse as to why your score beat theirs, etc.

I hope you're allowed to use it, its a great bow!

Zane

[Sigmazxcs]

I think it isn't a legitimate primitive or self bow.
Both of which, I think, derives much of its namesake for its simplicity in build.
Both categories of bows are purpose-built in nature, you can do away with all the fancy whatnots.

That aside, I'm very interested in how the limbs are made though. Care to share a little for a little fellow?

-- Aaron

[LittleBen]

My take is this: if they allow laminated limbs they should allow takedowns with laminated limbs. I'd call it a self bow if the limbs were from solid hickory and the riser from a hickory branch/stave as well. Certainly no one would fret over a 2 piece sleeved Osage self bow.

Either way I love the bow.

[Troy D. Breeding]

Zane,

My point exactly. Why is less primitive than a BBO, tri-lam, or any bow that is anything other than one piece of wood. I don't know if it can be seen in the pics, but this is a quad-lam layup. I added another thin lam only under the mounting surface to help stiffen up the connection area.

I've never really called it a selfbow. To me selfbow mean one piece of wood.

LittleBen,

Again my point exactly. Why is this bow any different than the sinew back osage bow I made that has a metal takedown sleeve.

I'm going to finish this bow one day. Most likely as soon as I get my trade bow finished.

For you Aaron,

The laminations in the limbs were ground just like I was going to build any glass bow. Only thicker..

I used the form I made to make the longbow limbs and simple glued them together.

To me doing it that way is no different than some of the froms I've seen on here to induce backset or reflex to other bows.

Troy

[John Scifres]

I would say if you can make it with primitive technology, then you can call it primitive.  Sleeved takedowns are kinda in a gray area.

A selfbow means the same piece of wood from back to belly, no working backing.

Generally though, I'd say make what makes you happy and accept the ruling body's decision regarding where it falls in an organized shoot.  

Or you could sue them     Discrimination and all....

[Troy D. Breeding]

You know,,, after thinking about it I remember when the hickory and bamboo backed bows came on the scene. Brother did that raise a ruckus.    

Then came the three piece longbow. I never heard so much static. It was almost blastfimy. If you did have one you were forced to shoot with the recurves.    

It just goes on and on.    

Troy

[Pat B]

Troy, I'd say traditional but not primitive. Actually some shoots have gone to have an ABO class now because the definition of "primitive"  has been pushed to its limits. In the ABO class I'm familiar with only modern strings are accepted. Everything else must be natural materials; selfbows and self arrows.
  In all reality it would be almost impossible for any of us to make truely primitive stuff with the brain developement we have gone through since primitive days. We can use primitive tools and methods but is it truely primitive with what we know today.
  I don't care what anyone else shoots. Heck I'll shoot against anyone with whatever they want to shoot. It really doesn't make a hill of beans in the larger scheme of thing. I shoot what I want to shoot and so can you.

[J.F. Miller]

Troy,as you know, when it comes to keeping score, lines have to be drawn someplace to establish and maintain the integrity of shooting classes in organized archery. that is a beautiful piece of work, but it certainly does not constitute a selfbow under the broadest definition of such. you have yourself a fine all wood three piece longbow. I seriously doubt that it offers any real advantage over other well made wooden bows. quite the opposite could be true.


In OSTA we've, much to my chagrin, had to broaden the definition of a "selfbow" to allow pretty much everything that doesn't have glass or carbon laminations. in the case of your bow, if it were up to me, I would not allow you to shoot in the selfbow class FOR COMPETITION. the three piece takedown design would be the disqualifying factor, even by the absurd definition of a "selfbow" that we've adopted. the reason we've had to broaden the definition for our selfbow class is because so few people shoot actual selfbows, or even simple solid core backed bows that it would be meaningless to even have that shooting class. assuming you shoot wood arrows out of this bow, you would be forced to shoot in the longbow class for competition.

I haven't kept a score at an archery shoot in nearly 20 years, but I've been charged with enforcing the rules at OSTA shoots for the last several years. I've had to make judgement calls on peoples equipment numerous times. it is an unpleasant job to have to do, but what I tell everyone is that "you can shoot whatever traditional bow you want for fun, but if you want to compete for that coveted $4 hat pin, you have to play by the clubs rules. club rules say that grey areas in the rules will be clarified on case by case basis by clubs officers. deal with it."  rehearsed and recited verbatim for more than one unruly shooter that wanted me to bend the rules for them. finish the bow, take it to a shoot and smoke everybody in whatever class they let you shoot in, then gloat like a madman.   :D

[Troy D. Breeding]

Jamie,

Like you I haven't shot for score in many a year. For me shooting at a tournament is just my way of being prepared for the up coming hunting season.

I was shooting selfbows when the backed bows came in. Didn't really bother me.

Same thing when the three piece longbows arrived.

Now I shoot whatever style I wish. If the bow I carry doesn't fit someone else's idea who cares. It fits mine.

Troy

[bowhntineverythingnh03743]

Troy i like it, pushing lamination of just wood to another level. Making the limbs act the same is a feet. Keep up the cool bows... I say this is a new class all in itself... Good work!

[Troy D. Breeding]

Well if they did make a class for it right now I would almost bet I could win.    

Troy

[kevinbarry]

Very nice looking bow.I would like to know how you made it.

[LESKEN2011]

Maybe not so primitive, Troy, but a fine job, anyway. I used to shoot the glass bows a lot back in the 90s in 3D shoots all over the south. Each shoot had its own rules. I didn't really pay that much attention back then to the selfbow rules, but I remember shooting at the Texas Longbow Championship one year. A couple of their rules at the time for longbows (with and without glass) as far as I can remember were that the handle could not be "dished" more than 1/4 in. and the bow, when strung could not have any reflex. The reflex tip longbows had come on the scene at that time and they would not allow them in the competition. The limbs had to be D shaped with a continuous arc. You also had to shoot split-fingered. I shot 3 fingers under at the time and had to retrain myself for the shoot. I never went back to 3-under.

[Sigmazxcs]

I see I'm not the only one casting second glances on this bow!
There's just something so simple and elegant about it. Great work with the bow Troy!

And now I'm just waiting for someone to propose the idea of a build-along for this bow... *hints*