My board is starting to look like a bow

[Zradix]

lol..
..I'm seriously thinking about home depot bamboo..lol

[Zradix]

Especially with a bamboo backed bow...

[Mike Most]

Your in deep sir.....enjoy the ride.....there wont be a tree safe in the neighborhood.

[scars]

Well done Zradix,    

With your first bow completed you now have a real reference dimension to work with. I would not cut your rest any deeper. Sight with your arrow not your bow.(jmo) A pyramid bow has all the basic qualities of any other bow style it's just easier. LOL  
My first bow attempt was a bamboo backed ipe it broke at the arrow rest. It was 51# at 24" at 26" I heard a tick, stepped back to check the arc when it snapped and one limb hit the ceiling. Before that I never thought about the energy stored in the bow. Now I think about it and I have a deeper respect and insight into our ancesters abilities.


Joe

[Zradix]

Thanks Scars..I think..lol    
I just got upstairs from taking the window in a bit more..then I read your post..HAHA

Well I'm about to string it and try it out...wish me luck..
   

[Zradix]

Just put 110 arrows through it.
Found an shaft/tip combo that shot sorta ok out of it.

BUT..
After careful inspection, I have a bunch of tiny, tiny little cracks on the belly of the bow running across the grain.
Have to get it in just the right light to see.
Almost look like weather checks in old tires..just very very tiny.

Is this something to worry about safety wise?

I've heard of fretting..but the pics I've seen of that look MUCH worse than what I have going on.

I don't know..almost looks like a fast dried piece of wood..

[scars]

Shoot 30 more check and monitor area, use superglue in area if it looks like they are growing. If you have more of that silk use it,,, but don't use the silk until you can see it is fretting other wise you won't be able to see what is happening.

[Zradix]

Thank you scars.

These little cracks are all over the middle 1/3 of the limb.
I can't feel them..only see them.

I'll try to get a pic of them tomorrow as I don't have my camera with me.

[Zradix]

This is not my bow.
My cracks are similar in arrangement as the bow in this pic.
My cracks are much smaller and I have about 1/3 as many.
 

[scars]

Well you have 5 key points on your Blog, I just reread the last couple of pages:

1- A successful first bow
2- 150+ shots successful
3- 41# 66" N2N red oak bow
4- A deep arrow rest
5- Bowyers Roy, Mike and Johns good job congrats

All in all I think you should just enjoy the use of your bow, take what you have learned and use it on your next bow.

[scars]

Sorry I just seen your example picture. I can't tell if you have backed your bow yet. If you haven't then just toast the belly of your bow. Should help with the compression

[John Scifres]

Sorry to say but frets or chrysals like that are compression failures and, unless you reduce the weight of the bow, will likely be fatal.  In the end, the bow will probably hinge there.  

Has the tiller changed?  Can you show a braced photo?

[Zradix]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I haven't been able to get to it today.

I haven't backed it at all.

I'll recheck the tiller asap.

I did notice more handshock as I shot it some more.
Leads me to believe the tiller did change.

[Zradix]

Let me run this by you guys..please..

This bow is 66" ntn.
It's 1 7/8" at the fades with a straight taper.
The riser block is 8 1/2"

Is my design flaw basically the width?
Should've done it 3" probably?

I know those limbs have some serious bend to them so the length is pushing it..but I didn't want a bow ANY longer.

Thanks

[takefive]

Hard to say... I'd think it would have been fine.  You're DW was 41#?  My unbacked oak board bow is 66" (64 1/2" NTN) and 38# and the limbs were 1 5/8" after the final sanding.  I kept that width for 8" before I tapered it to 1/2" though.  My draw is about 28".  The limbs have taken 2" of set, but o/w so far, so good.  I did rub the limbs down with a big screwdriver after sanding.  Are anymore frets showing up?

[John Scifres]

Red oak is pretty weak in compression. It can make a bow but for a beginner, your NTN length for a 28" draw is pretty aggressive.  Tillering has to be very precise when you are working close to the design margin.  Beginners do not tiller with precision.  It is the nature of the beast.  Make your next one 72" and stay with 2" width for half the limb.

Making a good bow doesn't generally happen your first or fifth or even tenth time out.  It takes time and practice, especially being mentored remotely on the internet.  I guess it was my twentieth or more bows before I felt even remotely competent.  And I used osage almost exclusively.  I am close to 200 now and I still make plenty of mistakes and mediocre bows.

With all due respect to those who have made good bows out of red oak (and I have made a few), it is not the best candidate for a bow, especially for beginners.  Red oak is not forgiving of mistakes.  If you have even a smallish hinge, even one you can't really recognize quickly, you will compress the belly and it will fail or set badly.  Osage and good hickory don't do that as bad.  You still have set but not frets, particularly with osage.  

I understand that red oak is available and cheap but is that really the standard you want to set for your craft?

[Echatham]

pm sent

[Zradix]

Sorry it took so long guys..BUSY weekend

Checked the tiller..Didn't seem to change or get hingey..
I rechecked with the gizmo after looking at the pic..lol
The pic looks weird to me..

 

Here is a pic of the cracks..very hard to photograph..

 
 

[Zradix]

thank you for the encouragement and advice John.
This FAILURE just makes me want to try another that much worse..lol I'm not the type to give up because it didn't go easy.

I'm working on a plan for some better wood.
This really was just a "give it a try" thing.
..with hopes of a functioning bow..

[takefive]

@John:  I can't argue with the points you make, it's all sound stuff.  Hickory boards are readily available to me and having just finished my first BBO, I'm completely sold on osage, too.  The reason for my oak bow was that it was a challenge on another forum to try to get beginners to make a bow and it had to be red oak, no exceptions.  I have not idea why.  I wasn't going to get into it because I'd made two hickory pyramid bows and with my meager tillering skills I wanted to stick with hickory.  The challenge thing looked like fun though and I had zero expectations as far as making a good or even mediocre bow, just thought it'd be good tillering practice.  Didn't feel like backing it and I either cut it out narrower by mistake or got too aggressive rounding the limbs.  And it is a pretty mediocre bow, not much zip to it but it has no hand shock and if I feel like flinging arrows in my basement for an hour after work it is light enough to do that without any aches or pains.  Reason I like my bows at 66" is because my basement has a low ceiling and I sit in a chair when I shoot.  Who knows, it may fret, splinter, or fail tomorrow.  That would be a shame because I really like that bow.  But I would make another one just like it.  Except it would be hickory :-)