laminated hill longbow build?

[Timy]

I was curious if you fine trad gentleman could point me in the right direction for a hill style laminated longbow build along.   I have a rough idea what I want to do but would love to read some more on the subject, and who doesnt love a good build along or guide =)

Appreciate any help in advance guys

[BCWV]

I used jsweka's build along and ended up with a fine first glass bow. John does great work.

   http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=009131#000000  

 Try searching Hill style and you'll find a wealth of info.

[MoeM]

Here at Dick Wightman`s  you`ll find another great BA and answers to many other questions regarding laminated bows and straights especially (I buil my firs after it)

[jsweka]

Here's another I did a couple years ago.

  http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=004759;p=1#000000  

I'm not sure which bow I like better.

Don't be afraid to ask questions.

[Timy]

Guys-   Awesome responses thank you so much!!!

I have a pretty repspectable shop from making knives, I have no apirations to make and sell bows, but sure would like to make a bow for myself  sign it and everything  

Thanks very much for the links so far gents!

[Timy]

John-   I just realized I have BOTH of those builds of yours saved in my favorites.  Great work.

Can I ask, do you want tapered laminations for a hill style longbow, or same thickness the whole way?

I would love to see your chart on how many and how thick the lams are get you x amount of draw weight

[bowhntineverythingnh03743]

Timy I have been working over the web with jsweka... listen to him and you will have a beautiful bow. I got to get my but in gear and shape my handle...screw it.... I am heading to the garage right now to work on it!

[jsweka]

Timy - I use one 0.002 tapered lamination on the belly side and 3 parallel lams towards the back.  Some guys use more taper than that (2 0.002 tapers), but I haven't experimented with more taper to see it's effects.

I really don't have a chart on the total lam thickness.  I take notes on each bow I build and then when I want a new weight I take some of that data, put it into a stack calculator spread sheet that Bjansen posted here a while ago, and that gives me a good estimate of the stack to use.

Lots of things will affect your draw weight - limb length, limb width, riser length, amount of taper - so if you deviate in your general design your weight may be off.  I generally try to overshoot the final intended draw weight and then keep narrowing the limbs until I hit it.

Let me know what weight you want to hit and I can probably get you close given the dimensions I use in my Hill style bows.

[BCWV]

Timy,

 John helped me on my first also. I listened to what he said and ended up with a fine bow at my desired draw weight. He's a fine feller!

 Brad

[jsweka]

You guys give me too much credit.  Brad and Justin - both of you guys can build non-glass laminated bows and I haven't done that with much success.  These Hill style bows are a piece of cake compared to that.

Timy - Here's a link to that stack calculator.  It's worked well for me.  Of course you have to get that first one built to have some data to input into this model.

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=007699;p=1#000000

[Timy]

John thanks for all the help man!

I'm looking to hit 50-55lbs at 27-28".  Overall length say 64"

Just a rough starting area I would really appreciate.

Also could you explain the whole dont go under 25% in your stack with glass?   love to know where you got that equation, or how I should set it up.

Thank you again for all the help man!

btw

Love your descriptor about facets to shape the handle, I do the exact same thing with my knife handles

[MoeM]

64" is a bit short for 28" draw, isn`t it??

John I thought tapers inch/metric could be translated 1:1 do you know?! (I`m a bit confused- I usually use 6mm/m taper and as long as I don`t go 1 1/4" to 3/8" in width I don`t get a "whiplash", I got recently so I`ll try 4mm/mm next time^^)

Btw. folks you like that p-heart zebra combo?
   

[Timy]

Moe- that is a beautiful combo.

Well I pull 27ish, but I have a longbow right now that pulls 28, hell probably almost 30 with no stacking.  its a straight profile, D when strung and its only 64"

[Timy]

Alright John, Here is what I am thinking

3 .070 parallel lams
1 .110 tapered(.002) lam
2x .050 glass    (Tuff E glass?)

All these lams are 1.5 is that ok?

Im gonna make the riser completely out of one piece of phenolic
phenolic tips

1/2 pint of smooth on
roll of high temp masking tape

Love to hear thoughts on this recipe

[bowhntineverythingnh03743]

I am in the process of finishing my first hill... Kenny M helped me with my stacks and if I didn't UBS a hick up I would have hit my 50-60 range with his calculations. But my bow went from a 66 inch ttt to a 64 ttt and now I am right at 60# with 1 1/8 width limbs... I don't mind heavier since deer season is a few months away.... Good luck with the build and post many pictures!

[jsweka]

Timy - Your total stack is 0.420.  With my design, that would result in a bow drawing 52 - 55# for a 68" bow.  Since you want to decrease the length to 64", that will result in a bow approximately 10# heavier.

64" inches is as short as I would go with a straight limbed longbow and 66" would be better.  I've built two that were 64".  One went to my father and one went in the 2011 bow swap.  At my draw of 27", they didn't seem to stack, but they were also lighter weight than I normally shoot so maybe I just didn't notice it.  Still, that's definitely as short as I would go with this design.

So, if you still want to go with 64", I'd estimate your stack should be 0.400 to hit 55# at 28" of draw. This is with a 16" riser length from the tip of one fade out to the tip of the other and a limb with of 1.25" at the fades and extending about 16 - 18" out each limb, then tapering to 1/2" at the string grooves.  

When I'm building one of these and initially cut my limb profile to 1.25", I'll get a string on it and check the weight.  If it's about 3# over weight at this stage I'll leave the limb width alone knowing that I lose an additional 3# when rounding over the edges of the limbs.  If it's heavier than that, I'll reduce the width some till I hit that 3# over mark.  So my bows generally end up between 1.125" and 1.25" wide.

As far as the general 20 - 25% rule for the glass to wood ratio, I have violated that with no ill effects.  In the last couple Hill style bows I've built for myself, I used 0.040 glass because I had that on hand and my ratio was 17%.  Of course I had to increase the wood to compensate for the decrease in glass, but I don't notice any difference when shooting compared to bows I've made with 0.050 glass.

Good luck!

[Timy]

Awesome John, thank you for such a detailed response!

I cant wait to get started!

[Timy]

Hey John, side question.  I am ordering supplies as I type this.  

What is the plus/minus to parallel to tapered limbs?

Also, since I am going with 3 parallel lams, full length, and one tapered lam on the belly, do tapered lams taper from the cent to the tips so I can cut it in half to use for the belly, or do I need to order two tapered lams?

Still learning but I really appreciate the help.  Cant wait to start this build!

Hopefully last question John, instead of the air hose, how do you feel about the forms with pegs running the whole length and you use elastic or rubber to hold the bow down.  Hope I am explaining that right.

[jsweka]

Timy - The tapered lams affect how the bow bends. More taper moves the bend farther out the limbs.  I use one 0.002 tapered lam, but a lot of other guys will use two 0.002 tapered lams.

All your lams will generally come as pair of 36" pieces that require splicing together for those that are on the back side of the riser.  No splicing is needed for the belly lam.  Check out my bow build and you'll see how they are spliced.

Nothing wrong with the "rubber band" method during the glue up and a some professionals even use that method.  Just make sure you use plenty of rubber bands incase one should break while the bow is cooking in the hot box.  I stared out with the air hose method because that's what most guys use and I bought all the hardware from Binghams to do it that way.  Never tried the rubber band method.

[Timy]

Thank you John.  


Tim