A failures build along

[John Scifres]

That is a pretty typical profile at first brace.  As long as you are close to final thickness, I would pull it a little farther before doing much else.  You will likely need to remove wood at the midlimb but they can unfold on you in a hurry if you haven't pulled it some.

Here's my first BBO:  http://web.archive.org/web/20080302181542/http://residents.bowhunting.net/sticknstring/hbbb1.html

And another one:   http://web.archive.org/web/20080302180614/http://residents.bowhunting.net/sticknstring/danbbo1.html

[macbow]

Looking good. My only comment so far is don't  set it in stone which is the upper limb till your well into tillering. Maybe at the end.

[Roy from Pa]

Just remember, Art. Those outer limbs aren't going to come around till you get that bow drawn more down the tree. I wouldn't get too carried away removing wood till your pulling it to 16 to 18 inches. My buddies BBO at 6 inch brace.

 

Pulled to about 20 inches here.


 
 

Full draw, notice how straight the last 8 to 10 inches of the limbs are. But this bow had the tips flipped.

 

[Razorbak]

Ok after reading Roys email I went out and did this..got it to brace of 6"
 [/url] [/IMG]
I excercised it a lot..pulling  and using the gizmo on the outer 2/3 leaving the last 8" alone..I have it marked on sides from where mid limbs are to where the last 8" left stiff and then I got it to 14" maxed with 50#ish weight...Im leaving it alone for the night...did I do ok?
 [/url] [/IMG]

[Razorbak]

Arrrrghhhh doing done light exercising pulls. Damn handle pops off. Looks like I'm doing handle duty again. Don't know why T3 didn't hold.  Gonna re sand and redo and hope it works again.  Gonna leave it alone for a day or do while handle cures.  Using T3 until I order uni bond.  I'm about fried on these failures. 1 type of bow I always wanted to build and own and u think I'm almost there.  My crap luck shows up

[macbow]

I don't use TB on handles. With TB you have to have almost perfect wood to wood contact.
Unibond or smooth on is the way to go.

[Roy from Pa]

 

If you look at the bow, it's bending at the end of the risers, that's what caused the handle to pop off, you need to get the middle third of the limbs bending. I was thinking in the past you were removing too much wood at the end of the riser, but just maybe your not getting the limbs bending enough first.  Get wood off them, plus get unibond or smooth on for the riser. I have never used TB glue on any bow. I told you to stay away from the end of the riser and you did, but I think you are moving too fast down the tree before getting those mid limbs bending. I'll bet if you watched the limbs work as you were pulling the bow down the tree, you would see it was doing all the bending at the end of the riser. My bad for not telling you about that. As I pull a bow on the tree, I want the limbs to look like a wave in the ocean, the outer third starts to bend, then the middle third starts to bend, then the inner third starts to bend.

Hang in there Art...

[Roy from Pa]

Compare these two pictures, you will see what I mean, Art.

My Buddy's bow at 20 inches

 

Your bow at 14

 

The areas circled need wood removed.

[macbow]

Roy is right on as usual. Looks like the right limb might need to catch up with the left a little too.

[Roy from Pa]

Watch the two DVD's I sent you, watch them 3 times each:) Especially the Dryad one.

[Razorbak]

that's exactly where I been working Roy from the get go....scraping and sanding per what you said to do...I think I had bad glue line as I was sweating and might have gotten somr in glue/wood
im gonna refresh the handle and watch some videos

[Razorbak]

right where im working at Roy is where the curve is at..will that matter...in past I have attacked fades bad but not on this one

[D]

Way to go Roy...way to just let him pop the handle off...lolol  Keep your chin up Art this one will work out.  The handle is just a minor mishap.  An easy fix.  Like Roy said get those mid limbs bending and it will take a lot of the pressure off of the handle.  If everything worked out perfect then everybody would be doing it and it wouldn't be near as fun..lol

[Razorbak]

nah its all good..I cant blame the ol COOT     I blame myself..I messed up somewhere so no further installations till I rectify and find out what I did...and get the handle back on so I can work the tiller the way you fellas said to and unibond is going to be ordered this week..cant take it anymore..If I cant make a bow with this then Roy I want you to blunt me at 20 paces right between the eyes....wonder since I didn't have a beer open that was the problem..LOL

[bowhntineverythingnh03743]

I dunno if I would tiller it any without the handle placed back on it. Take your time... wait for the Unibond! Take a step back before you go to quickly and end up with nothing... Watch your Dvds and wait! Its a killer though trying to wait... I should know! Turned many a bow into toothpicks lol

[Bowjunkie]

While you wait for your glue, let's try to figure out why your handle popped so it never happens again.

What is the thickness of the core wood at the center? Was it tapered in thickness prior to glueup? How much is it tapered? What is the thickness at the dips and thickness at the tips? How was it tapered? By hand, jointer, thickness sander, or what?

How long and thick is the power lam? What kind of wood is it?

How were the gluing surfaces prepped? Were they smooth or rough? What tools were used on the surfaces prior to glue up? Oil from skin or sweat on gluing surface? Degreased or not? Degreasing isn't necessary if you go from a freshly prepped surface right into your glue up without fingering it up.

Keep in mind, Unibond and Titebond require two different gluing surfaces... rough and smooth respectfully.

How was the fit beteeen the handle piece and blank prior to glue up? Did you hold it up to a light background and study it for gaps?

What draw weight are you shooting for?

[Roy from Pa]

Good morning, Art. Put a smile on your face dude, it's a brand new day:) I "do" understand that you "were" working on those areas I have circled and actually you could extend those circles a little on both ends. Where you "strayed" off course was when you kept pulling the bow farther and farther down the tree, before getting those mid limbs bending. Like I mentioned above, had you been paying closer attention to how the limbs were reacting/bending as you pulled it, you would have seen them doing all the bending at the ends of the riser. That is not what you want to see. You want to see the entire limb bending in a nice gentle arc.

Your first braced picture wasn't all that bad, however you can see how flat the mid limbs are and you can see where the limbs are doing all the bending at the ends of the riser. At that point before even pulling the bow on the tree, you should have kept working those mid limb areas till you did see them bending at a braced profile. You said you floor tillered it? When you floor tiller, you want to see those mid limbs bending some. Hickory is a very strong wood so it's going to take some wood removal to get them bending. But in doing so, you also need to maintain an even thickness taper from the flares to the tips. Just like when you do the pre thickness taper on the belly slat from 1/2 at the flares to 3/8th at the tips, you need to maintain that even gentle taper while removing wood when tillering.

     

Below is the braced profile you need to shoot for, and when I first string up a new bow, it does look very close to this because of my thickness limb taper and width profile taper, but before I begin to pull it on the tree, I start removing wood where needed to get it looking real close to this profile. I do that with the bow braced, I remove some wood with a scraper and then sand paper and pull the bow to maybe 3 or 4 inches about 30 times by hand.

     

I think you get in a hurry to pull the bow down the tree, before it's ready for that part of the process. Wait for the unibond, then ruff up both surfaces with a toothing plane or hacksaw blade if you don't have a toothing plane. Make sure the fit is very precise, and glue her up. I blow the dust off then wipe the wood with denatured alcohol, let it dry a few minutes and glue away.

Then when you string it back up, start removing wood at a brace height and get some bend in those limbs like I explained right above. And smile Art, things could be a lot worse!

[Bowjunkie]

I'm gonna have to disagree with Roy. I would not try to achieve the braced profile of the bow he pictured. Your bow is not that far from where you want to be. IMO.

Please answer my questions about your tapering and such. This will give us a better idea of where we're headed and where we're at.

Tillering a d/r bow, or any bow, can be done numerous ways and still be done 'right'. There's no one right way.

Many of my bbo d/r bows are straight thru the limbs at brace, very similar to your bow's left limb, some even still showing reflex. How it looks depends on the unbraced profile(amount of, and placement of, reflex and deflex) and how you prefer the limbs to work.

Your bow is gentle in both deflex and reflex, so I would probably tiller it so that it had a very slight arc to it at brace. Get the right limb to match the left first, and as you exercise it, watch for movement at the dips. If the limbs move too much near the dips, scrape the mid and outer limb a little and try again. Eventually they'll begin to show a wee bit of arc at brace, just don't overdo it... and don't pull it farther until it is as good as you can make it at the current distance.

I  would check limb timing and make any necessary adjustments next.

While exercising, I'd be watching the inner limbs to actually SEE if they're doing too much work. The deflex in d/r bows can make the dip area look like it's bending too much when it actually is doing less or no more than the rest of the limb. Don't be fooled. Always keep in mind where the bow starts... unbraced... ALL tillering profiles are relative to THAT. Don't make a d/r bow whip ended trying to give it the arc of a straight bow at brace.

If the front profile is what you want, and pretapering in thickness is adequate and accurate, the bow will try to show you early on how it wants to bend relative to the glued up profile. Don't completely ignore her. Don't try to make her something she's not.

[Roy from Pa]

Yup Jeff, I was only trying to show him how the limbs should have an arc in them at brace, compared to his limbs being flat and actually reflexed at mid limb. He pretty much used a form like I do for the glue up, so I would assume his side profile would mirror mine pretty close.

[Razorbak]

ummm..let me see if I can awnser some questions, the hickory was about 1/2 thick and tapered to end and I want to say .001  and handplaned and the PL was 20" long and tapered to knife edge from 1/8" thick in center and made out of bamboo..the bamboo was tapered as well from 1/8" in center to 1/16" at tips...all the wood and bamboo I had gotten from my buddy D  he took care of me on this one, I rough up all surface slightly with hacksaw then I brushed it off and use denatured alcohol to clean...after I did the handle area I might have done same thing but I used different glues in the process..smooth on limb and T3 on handle but with rough surface versus a smooth surface so that's where I think I goof...gonna fix it and get back on the horse so to speak...Roy after I got it bending to where you said to get brace I work it inch by inch right in those areas and maybe I was to anxious     and yep my form is a spitting image to Roys