Questions about sinew? With Test Bow

[scars]

So I am testing my self with a very small Osage stave with ipe recurve tips, and with some very thin horn belly. The horn and tips are glued on the Osage and I am starting to comb the sinew into threads.
Question 1,
I have noticed that the back strap sinew is a lot coarser then leg sinew, is there a performance difference in each type of sinew?
Question 2,
I dry processed the sinew and have noticed that it feels greasy, Is it okay to clean the grease out of the sinew with dawn dish washing soap prior to laying it onto the back of the bow? Or would it be better to clean it like oily woods with acetone or similar product?
Question 3,
I have 3# of hide glue but no glue pot or any way to regulate the temperature of the glue. Would it be better for a first timer to use TB3? Please I really don't want an argument over hide or TB3 it has been done way to many times.
Question 4,
If anyone has some web tutorials on the procedure they can post it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Joe

[Bowjunkie]

1. No

2. I noticed the same 'waxy' feel on leg sinew, never degreased, never had a problem.

3. I don't have a formal 'glue pot' either, don't need one. I've always just made a quick double boiler by setting a plastic Cool Whip or margerine container in a medium size pot of hot water, held from tipping by punching holes in the container and using thin wire to anchor it to the handles of the pot.

Then when you're done, let the leftover glue cool, put the lid on, stuff it in a gallon size ziplock freezer bag and store it in the freezer until you need it again.

[PEARL DRUMS]

Go to the Primitive Archer website. Look for the build-along section. The first page has a sinewed hackberry static I did a complete build along on and if you search more you will find at least a few more good ones from Pat B or Bryce(Pinecone). All three will help you a bunch I feel. The biggest tip I can give? Be DARN sure your glue is dissolved enough and hot enough, it should be like warm syrup, or even lighter. Any thicker and it will gel up well before you want it to.

[macbow]

An old electric coffee pot disassembled  makes a,good heat source. Just use the warmer part .

[Pat B]

I bought a small crock pot from GoodWill for $5. I float a stainless steel pot with the glue in it is water in ther crock pot(double boiler style).
  Also I wash sinew in warm water and Dawn dish soao to degrease and I also scrub the back of the bow with Dawn and warm water them rinse it with boiling water just before adding the sinew.

[LittleBen]

Then just wait .... and wait .... and wait .... and eventually one day the sinew will be dry. I remember the temptation of wanting to start working on a sinewed bow and having to wait weeks IIRC.

[scars]

Thanks for all the info, last night I finally broke down and bought adams book. Between PA Atarn and here I hope to be successful.


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This is just a test bow to see if I am able to do this. Or it should be called my learning curve. The osage is only one inch wide at the fades it is 5/16" thick and at the base of the tips it is 3/16". Horn is 3/32" at fades and 1/16" at the tips. pretillered and I did violate the ring I chased but figured that the sinew would resolve that. But at the moment it does pull evenly.

I really appreciate all your tips and advise.

Joe

[scars]

After a week of drying it has reflexed 2-3 inches and I have noticed some depressions. Should I heat the areas that have recessed and fill with more sinew and hide glue?

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I tried to get the sinew as even as possible but it is a little ruff.

Joe

[Pat B]

You don't need to heat it. Give the back an overall light sanding and size the sinew first with glue then add sinew where needed.

[scars]

Thank you Pat,

At the moment it has one cord of sinew down the center of the limbs and two layers of sinew on top. I am using a seven to three ratio of water to glue and 8.5 to 1.5 for sizing. So I will sand lightly, size, and fill the voids. Once that has dried enough to inspect and everything looks good I will sand size and place the final layer of sinew and start the waiting. Sure is hard not to flex it.  

I got to admit I did not care for the processing part of sinew but the laying it on the bow limbs is awesome. I really enjoyed that part.

Joe

[scars]

It has been two weeks since I placed the finial layer of sinew on to this bow. TBB says you could start working the tiller on it, However all the websites say three months. Something about sinew needs or will keep polymerizing from 3 to 24 months after drying. Its weight has stabilized at 11.34 ozs or 322 grams. I have not seen more than one or two points change +- in the last four days. Jim Hamm in his book Bows and arrows of the Native Americans says you can start working the bow after 10 day or anytime after that. Any pointers?

I did sand the sinew smooth and horn has been sanded to 320 grit.

[scars]

Originally posted by LittleBen:
Then just wait .... and wait .... and wait .... and eventually one day the sinew will be dry. I remember the temptation of wanting to start working on a sinewed bow and having to wait weeks IIRC.

Thanks LB, LOL

Waiting is not one of my best qualities.

[Pat B]

My sinewed osage static recurve has been curing for 2 months next weekend. I was going to start tillering after 2 months but it has been so humid I'm thinking about waiting until we get some drier weather. We've had about 75" of rain already this year(73"is a 20 year yearly average)with 30" total for June and July...and the rain continues.
 On other sinew backed bows I've made I waited a month between each of three layers of sinew and another two weeks after adding a snake skin backing. All with hide glue.

[scars]

Pat,
 
We are just the opposite, no rain, average RH 49% at night 60% during the day. Moisture evap in inches per day 1.5 inches. Do you tiller between the last layer of sinew and before you skin it?

Looks like another six weeks to go.

Some poundage stats

osage core 24# 24 inches
1"x5/16" at fades, 3/16 thick at V splice

osage core with horn 31# at 24 inches
Horn 1"x3/32" at fades 1/16 thick at V splice.

Sinew is as thick as the core and horn.
 
My thoughts, this thin bow will want to twist.
I think I will put it some place out of sight.

[scrub-buster]

I like to apply sinew to a bow in the winter and then put it up until summer.  I've done this the past several years.  This winter I might back two bows.

[scars]

Originally posted by scrub-buster:
I like to apply sinew to a bow in the winter and then put it up until summer.  I've done this the past several years.  This winter I might back two bows.

I don't think I could do that here winter is our rainy season. The glue would more than likely mold after it jelled.

[Pat B]

Scars, I'll tiller the bow out completely and put 100 arrows through it before adding the skins. If it fails I don't want to waste the skins.

[scars]

15 more days!!! Tick Tock

[scars]

Alright, I am guilty of impatience. I just could not wait any longer. So I started the process of stringing the bow.

First picture is the bow bent with the tepiliks in place. This bow is my first attempt at a horn bow and I thought that I had made it a lite one. However I am not to sure how lite it is going to be.
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This one is just the pictures of different parts of the bow but same procedure.
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I will leave it in the tepiliks for a couple of days.
I am glad I decided to do this before I sinewed the horse bow. If this is any where close to what the sinew will do on the horse bow then I am going to have to reduce the thickness of the wood core. This one is only an inch wide at the fades but the horse bow is almost 1.5 inches wide and a little bit thicker.

[scars]

Well I got it stung up but it was a little hairy. I thought that the sinew popping and creaking was bad when I put the tipeliks on the belly. I made a Flemish single loop string, used a bowline knot on the loose end at 48". This gave me a low brace of 4" but I did not think of the line stretch. In about 15 seconds it was on the riser. So I retied it at 45" and got it on to the nocks. It stretched to 47" after about and hour and stabilized the brace height  about 3 to 3 1/2"s. I left it on for 6 hours. Unstrung the bow reduced the length to 45" again and had 7 1/4" brace. I made a loop string at 45" served the loops and center of the string. Installed it on the bow and had a 9" brace. I guess the two differences a continuous loop and b55 instead of a Flemish string of b50 made a big difference in stretch. I ended up making another string at 46 1/2" and finally got my 7" brace. Pictures tomorrow. I am tired. or lazy tonight.