Need Advice! Saplings for bows?

[critman]

Found a load of pecan saplings growing in an old field. They vary from 1"-4" in diameter. Can you make a bow with some kind of shelf? Not leather or anything but actually cut out a small shelf or does this compromise the wood at this area too much. Never made a bow out of a stave only board bows and I have always cut a shelf. Not to center, just something to rest the arrow on. Risky?

[John Scifres]

I have made bows from trees as small as 3".  I would not cut out a shelf in one but you can make a rigid handle bow and do it if you feel the need.  Traditionally, wooden bows do not have a cut-in shelf.  

I have done it a lot in the past but now I really like the look and feel of a more traditional looking handle.  That could change tomorrow as my bowyer moods are fickle  

[critman]

Thanks John, you always give good advice.

[Art B]

Never had a problem myself. Cutting a shelf in (moving the arrow closer to center) is a good method that allows shooting the same spined arrows if you shoot different styles/weights of bows. Or like myself, getting older and weaker.

Handle design you have to watch. I wouldn't cut a shelf in on a bulbous handle. No problem with rectangulars though. If you start with a 1" wide handle and cut your shelf in 1/4" that still leaves with 3/4" width. Puts you to within 1/4" of center and allows the use of almost the same spined arrow as the weight of the bow. Have at it..........Art B

[Pat B]

I've made hunting weight bows from 2" diameter osage saplings and bows to 45# or so with hickory saplings of 2". I never cut in shelves and use a floppy rest for the arrow shelf.
 If your arrows are spined correctly for your bow and you a shelf isn't necessary.

[critman]

Pat B, I have enough different spined arrows that arrow selection/tuning has never been a problem. It's my understanding  by watching all the MOBB series, Gary Davis explained that if you don't have a shelf you have to train yourself to hold at a different spot than if your bow is center cut. Is this correct? Doesn't really matter to me, I shoot 'cause I love this sport and enjoy trying different styles.  Also, what about feathers tearing up your hand or do they clear thru the shot?

[critman]

Art B, please explain more about handle shape. What does a bulbous handle look like? I assume maybe more rounded? Thanks for all the input guys. About ready to give this a try, shelf or no shelf.
One more question. If the tree is big enough would it hurt to maybe go ahead and saw it into a more square shape? Like 2"x2" square?

[Art B]

Yeah, rounded in the middle and necked down at the arrow pass Critman. Poor situation for a cut-in there.

Best to reduce your stave to rough bow dimension for quicker drying. Reduces the chances of checking also..........Art B.

[Dan Landis]

I have one I made from a black locust sapling that measures slightly over 1-1/4" after the bark was removed.  I left the handle full diameter and removed wood from the belly  to about half the thickness, sealed the ends and back till dry. When dry I tapered the sides and tillered.  Came in around 60# @ 28" and 2-3" of set.  I used a leather floppy rest, but there was plenty of wood on the handle area that I could have cut in a narrow shelf with no problem.

[Pat B]

I wrap the forward end of my fletching plus use a floppy rest. Both protect my hand.
 I don't shoot center cut bows. All I know is with properly spined arrows my non-center cut bows shoot where I'm looking. Selfbows do shoot somewhat different than other bows so you have to shoot them and adjust your style to suit the bow.
  Cane or shoot arrows shoot especially well from selfbows mainly because of their natural taper allowing the arrow to get around the bow better.

[critman]

Thanks again guys for all the advice. I now have access to hickory, pecan, red oak, and sycamore trees/saplings to cut whenever and however I want. I love family reunions! In my family all you have to do is ask............

[George Tsoukalas]

I've made bows from 2" saplings. I leave them a good 2 inches longer to counteract the crown on the back. I can continue with more directions if you are interested. Jawge

[Sidmand]

I'm interested George.  I can get access to plenty of Hickory saplings in the woods around my house, but I was always worried that they would be to small.  I think the average that I can easily get at is around 2 to 4 inches, how would you guys go about making a self bow from that size sapling?

[PEARL DRUMS]

I just finished a sweet little elm sapling. It was 2" max diameter. Its now a 47 @ 25", 51" ntn bow. Saplings are, in my opinion, the best route for whitewood bows.

[critman]

George and pearl drums-please, please see my other questions post. Didn't see all these until after I had posted other.
Critman

[critman]

George, PM sent.
critman

[George Tsoukalas]

I look at the sapling closely before cutting. Look for a straight stave with as few limb entry points as possible. I like 2-3 in in diameter. After cutting try to position the stave as if you were going to string it. See if it twists in your hand.

You want to leave it a good 2-3 inches longer than you normally leave full stave bows to counteract crown on the back.

Now, take a long string  clamp to one end and see if it falls on the handle.

You have found the back.

Next draw a marker line down each side to delineate back from belly.

With a hatchet, I remove the belly being careful to not build in a  twist. Stay straight on each side. These are too small to split effectively.

Take off the bark.

You can actually begin to floor tiller getting the limbs to bend an inch or 2. It will dry faster.

Let it dry and make a bow. There a re buildalongs on my site.

 http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/index.html

I've used maple, oak, black locust and other hardwoods. Stay away from poplar and other conifers like pine. My first shooter long about '92 or '93 was made from a BL sapling.

Jawge

[George Tsoukalas]

Pecan and hickory are great choices. Jawge

[critman]

Thanks George, while reading your reply it's like the fog cleared. I understand now what to do and where to start. Thanks so much! Now if I mess up I'll go cut some more and try and try again. I read that it is easier to remove bark in the heat of summer rather than winter. Do you find this to be true?

[George Tsoukalas]

Yes, critman, cut a few saplings to last you while you learn. Cut them now and remove the bark within a few days. If you leave it on it will cement itself to the back. Fall and winter cut wood will do the same. The bark is hard to remove. Jawge