Reflex and Backset

[Hermon]

Can you say that these are the same thing, or is there definite difference?

[onemississipp]

Same, people seem to understand reflex better and it does not get confused with set.

[macbow]

When I think of back set it is more the entire limb from the handle.
With reflex I'm looking more towards the nock to some distance  towards the handle.

[Bowjunkie]

There's a difference. Check out the vocabulary section of this forum.

Backset refers, overall, to how the handle sits in relation to the limbs.

Reflex describes any portion of a limb that curves away from the shooter.

A bow's limbs could be straight or even deflexed, and be backset by angling the billets forward during glue up.

A bow's limb may have a reflexed portion and an equally deflexed portion, netting a bow whose tips are even with the handle... hence, no backset.

[onemississipp]

See what I mean. If you go to the voubalulary section and look at each term to include deflex/reflex bow, which according to the above is backset.

Deflex/Reflex bow - A bow design incorporating deflex in the handle area for enhanced shootabililty and reflex in the limbs for added efficiency.

Backset – The result (as effected by bowyer or nature) of setting the bow handle back toward the shooter and hence, the limb tips forward for greater efficiency. Inducing backset can be done when splicing longbow billets together by angling both billets forward from the spliced joint during glue-up.

Reflex - 1. Any part of an unstrung bow’s limb that curves away from the string side. 2. Distance a bow’s tips are set in front of the handle when unstrung due to reflexing. For instance, a bow may be said to show two inches of reflex, when unstrung.

Recurve - A bow whose limbs curve away from the string at their ends. A recurved bow is said to be ‘static’ if the recurved portion does not bend during the draw, or ‘working’ if it does.

[Bowjunkie]

Dustin, are you inferring that the 'deflex' part of the deflex/reflex definition, and the 'setting the bow handle back toward the shooter' part of the backset definition mean the same thing? If so, they don't, in fact, they're virtually the opposite. If not, then you'll have to be a little more specific about what it is that isn't clear to you.

In regard to your first post... I've never seen or heard of anyone confusing backset with set. Is it a real problem?

[monterey]

Originally posted by Hermon:
Can you say that these are the same thing, or is there definite difference?

Apparently there are more differences than we had imagined!      I have also seen the terms reflex and deflex applied to the handle itself.  A highly deflexed handle can be seen on some wheelie bows where the brace height would be so high as to waste too much draw length.  So, the actual grip or handle is brought in much closer to the string/shooter (deflexed) to solve the problem.

A reflex handle is more common on a stick bow where the handle/grip portion is extended out away from the shooter and toward the back of the bow.

[LittleBen]

This question is best suited to a diagram, but I don't feel like getting into MS paint this early on a sunday. Anyone else?

[Bob at Work]

the terms kind mean the opposite when applied to the riser rather than the limbs...     simple.  LOL.

[monterey]

Here is my attempt to explain it.  Subject to discussion and disagreement.  Lets just get it right whatever it takes!    

 

 

[Bob at Work]

great pics...but are you sure about the riser part...?  Just asking...but not how I was taught back in the day...
Bob

[LittleBen]

Yeah I was onboard until the riser part.


One other thought ... I always thought about reflex and backset like this. Backset is a type of reflex. Backset is always reflex, but reflex is NOT always backset.

as in all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares.

[Bob at Work]

Great Northern Bow Company has a good illustration on their website using the Fireball longbow.
LittleBen-it sounds right to me... LOL

[Bowjunkie]

Monteray, I was with you also until the riser part. The riser area(and inner limb area) on the left is deflexed because it is curved toward the string, the riser area on the right is refexed because it curves away from the string.

The same reasoning and terminology that you applied to the outer limb sections above applies to the handle area and inner limb area of the bows as well.

As such, this is why bows shaped like your bottom-left illustration are described as deflex/reflex longbows.

[Piratkey]

Originally posted by Bowjunkie:
Monteray, I was with you also until the riser part. The riser area(and inner limb area) on the left is deflexed because it is curved toward the string, the riser area on the right is refexed because it curves away from the string.

The same reasoning and terminology that you applied to the outer limb sections above applies to the handle area and inner limb area of the bows as well.

As such, this is why bows shaped like your bottom-left illustration are described as deflex/reflex longbows.

+1    

[monterey]

Originally posted by LittleBen:
Yeah I was onboard until the riser part.


One other thought ... I always thought about reflex and backset like this. Backset is a type of reflex. Backset is always reflex, but reflex is NOT always backset.

Ben, I think of the back set the same as you do.  I have always thought of back set as refering to the limbs being set back away from the shooter.  The glossary describes it as the handle being set back toward the shooter, thus the quotes around the handle part.

As regards the riser pic, I have always thought about reflex and deflex like this;  Reflex means away from the shooter and deflex means toward the shooter.  The glossary uses the term string side rather than shooter side.  

I don't think handles are often refered to as reflex or deflex any more but it seems to me that it was a common reference int the past.

[monterey]

As such, this is why bows shaped like your bottom-left illustration are described as deflex/reflex longbows.  

I see them described as "reflex/deflex" and "deflex/reflex" but they are the same bow just a matter of which part of the bow is described first inner limb or outer limb.  At least that's the way I see it.

Could also be that I don't understand your point.  

Later edit:  I think I see where we are differing here.  I think of the terms of r/d as refering only to the limbs and specifically the direction the limbs.  Therefore, the outer portion of the limb bending away from the shooter (string) is reflexed.  The inner portion of the limb bending toward the shooter or string is deflexed.  Therefore an handle placed away from the shooter is reflexed and the handle toward the shooter is deflexed.

Another thing that has come back to me regarding handle nomenclature is that a reflex handle is forward of the string nocks and a deflex handle is rearward of the sting nocks.

[Bowjunkie]

Risers/handles are deemed reflex or deflex for the same reasons the limbs are, their shape/profile, not their location. It has nothing to do with whether the handle resides in front of or behind the tips. In fact, a deflexed riser could reside either in front of the tips, behind them, or perfectly even with them.

[monterey]

Bowjunkie, I'm mulling your post over and not sure If I get what you are saying.  My reference to limb tips refers to a strung bow.

If it's the shape or profile, what would be examples of them?  IOW, if regardless of whether the handle resides forward or back, it is determined by profile, then what profile is referenced?

I have a feeling you are correct on this but still don't understand it.

[Bowjunkie]

The unstrung side profile.... which is the same way we judge limb shape for identification.

In the picture posted earlier in the thread, the bow on the bottom left was a perfect example of a deflex-shaped handle section... because its profile shows it curving toward the string side of the bow.

The handle area of the bow on the right is reflexed... because it's curving away from the string side.