Is this another BBQ bow?

[wazabodark]

I want to start my first post on this website by saying that Trad Gang is a great (cyber)-envronment. Full of friendly, knowledgeable people who are willing to share their experience and know how at the drop of a hat. That is truly a breath of fresh air in our world. In keeping with that spirit, I promise that as I get better at this bow building thing I will share what I have learned with the same freedom and good will that I have seen from all of you.
  In the meantime...SOMEBODY PLEASE HELP ME BEFORE I KILL ANOTHER INNOCENT BOW!!!
  This is my latest attempt at a red oak flatbow. It's based on the Popular Mechanics design from the 50's, but the board was checked on one end so I made it 4" shorter. And I wanted it to be more powerful, so I made the limbs 1/4" wider. (You probably see where this is going.)  The growth  rings were perfect, but there was some grain runoff along the sides. So I decided to back it, and I think that's where all my problems started. I used ipe. I figured why not since I have a garage full of the stuff leftover from decks I have built. So I picked the tightest grained quarter sawn piece I could find and ripped it down to 3/16" on my table saw. If you, right now, are thinking,"Dude, that is way too thick!", you would be absolutely right. I actually thought the same thing when I saw them; but damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!
  This brings us to the glue up phase of my project. The only piece of ipe with a suitable grain that I could find was too short to cover the bow in one piece, so I did it in two pieces, spliced in the center. More on that nightmare later. I noticed, after floor tiller, that the oak was already taking some set, so I laid two 2X4's flat under each tip, applied  a liberal amount of TBIII, and clamped the riser to my workbench, and put that ipe to work! A whole bunch of clamps and leave it for 24 hours.
   The next evening, after pulling the clamps and trimming the backing  the next evening

[fujimo]

welcome fella
ipe, is really a compression wood- a belly wood. i have heard of bows being made from staves, but cant say if they used sap wood for tension wood, or if they chased a single ring.
now i really appreciate- that a lot of people build successful red oak bows, but more seem to fail than are built.
get some hickory, or maple or even ash ,if there is nothing else. try a board bow or two, and then move on to some real bow wood, osage is awesome, ipe is too, and there are heaps of other great woods.
you have all that ipe, trade someone for some good bow wood- you'll get some takers.
trade two for one, ipe is best backed with hickory or bamboo.

back to your bow, you might be better off backing with silk, linen or butchers paper- using titebond glue.
you can still get the ipe backing off and retry- i believe heat will get it off- chat to PatB

good luck, keep trying, and never quit!!
wayne

[soy]

I may be speaking out of class here(chances are I am) but I believe that I have heard that Ipe is a good compression wood not so much in tention so using it for a backing might not be the best of choices....I'm sure that someone with more experience well chime in and discount what I have said but I believe that's what I've heard  

[wazabodark]

Wrong button! I probably need to shorten this thing anyway.
    After gluing and trimming the backing I had not so much a bow but more a fancy looking stick that you could literally use to beat a rhino to death. Couldn't bend it a1/4". So I got the belt sander after the backing and thinned it down to about 1/8". Then I recut the belly taper to the original dimensions and put it on the tiller tree. I've scraped, planed, and rasped on this piece of wood for hours now and all though I seem to be making a positive impact on th bottom limb, the top limb doesn't want to move at all. As soon as I figure out how to post pictures  I'll do it, with specific questions about the numerous issues I'm having. I would really appreciate any advice you folks can give me. Sorry about the ridiculous length of this post. Thanks in advance.
                                       -RD

[wazabodark]

Wrong button! I probably need to shorten this thing anyway.
    After gluing and trimming the backing I had not so much a bow but more a fancy looking stick that you could literally use to beat a rhino to death. Couldn't bend it a1/4". So I got the belt sander after the backing and thinned it down to about 1/8". Then I recut the belly taper to the original dimensions and put it on the tiller tree. I've scraped, planed, and rasped on this piece of wood for hours now and all though I seem to be making a positive impact on th bottom limb, the top limb doesn't want to move at all. As soon as I figure out how to post pictures  I'll do it, with specific questions about the numerous issues I'm having. I would really appreciate any advice you folks can give me. Sorry about the ridiculous length of this post. Thanks in advance.
                                       -RD

[takefive]

Although I've never used ipe, I'm with the other posters in that I've always heard of it being used as the belly wood with a bamboo or hickory backer.  I would worry that used as backing it would crush your red oak belly and cause it to chrysal.  The grain on backing wood has to be very good also, o/w it may splinter.  That said, if you want to keep plugging away at it, you should give the dimensions of your bow.  Maybe the limbs are just too wide or...?  But I would still take a good look at the grain on your ipe first.  Sure don't want it to lift a splinter and break when you get it to full draw.

[wazabodark]

I appreciate ya'll's input. I have also surmised that ipe is primarily a comp. wood, but only after I had already glued on the backing. I think that I have too much time and energy invested in this bow to scrap the project. I'm often too bullheaded for my own good. And I think the contrast in the two woods is gorgeous. I'm hoping I can thin the ipe down enough for the oak to handle it. Or does a backing simply not work that way? Will any amount of ipe overpower red oak? I cerinly don't want to build anything dangerous. The ipe itself was extremely tight grained and quarter sawn, with the grain running at about 80h degrees to the surface of the board. It has no visible defects at all.
  The bow is 62" nock to nock. Top limb, all dimensions from theas f center

[wazabodark]

I appreciate ya'll's input. I have also surmised that ipe is primarily a comp. wood, but only after I had already glued on the backing. I think that I have too much time and energy invested in this bow to scrap the project. I'm often too bullheaded for my own good. And I think the contrast in the two woods is gorgeous. I'm hoping I can thin the ipe down enough for the oak to handle it. Or does a backing simply not work that way? Will any amount of ipe overpower red oak? I cerinly don't want to build anything dangerous. The ipe itself was extremely tight grained and quarter sawn, with the grain running at about 80h degrees to the surface of the board. It has no visible defects at all.
  The bow is 62" nock to nock. Top limb, all dimensions from theas f center

[wazabodark]

Whoops. I have more trouble with buttons than I do with bows. Haha, get it? Anyway, the handle of the bow is 4" long by 7/8" wide by 1 3/16" thick. Top limb: at 1" from center 15/16W x 1 316T. 2 1/2"FC 1 1/2"W x 9/16"T. At 12 1/8"FC 1 1/2" x 7/16". At23 3/4"  3/4" x 3/8". At the nock 1/2"W x 3/8"T.
   Bottoimb. 3"FC 7/8W" X 1 3/16"T. 5"FC 1 1/2"W x 5/8"T. At 10 7/8"FC 1 1/2"X9/16". At 23" FC 3/4"x3/8". At nock 1/2"x3/8".
  I'm going to do some more sanding on the ipe so these.numbers will get smaller. The thickness will anyway. Another thought I've been mulling over is gluing a backing over the ipe. Would that do any good? Or would I still be crushing the oak?

[fujimo]

if you havent glued a handle on( or just cut the handle off) flip the bow over, thin the oak down, and glue a hickory backing to it, and build a tri lam- dont thin the ipe anymore.
allow the red oak to be the center/ neutral plane of the bow, glue a handle on the ipe side- like Eric does, with multiple thin laminations, so that it doesnt pop off.

otherwise just call it a learning curve- trade some ipe for some hickory backing strips, and build a HBI bow- quicker, safer, easier and kinder on the soul:)
g-luck
wayne

[scars]

Greetings
First you can use photobucket for pictures, once uploaded all you have to do is use the cursor to hover over the picture don't click on the picture. in the corner you will see an icon click on it, a drop down will show up click on get links another drop down will show up click on image codes. It will say copied.
Once you can use the full reply form to copy to post.

The way you have it made with the redoak as a belly and the ipe as the backing is going to cause the oak to fail, fretting, pardon the miss spells chrysalls small lines going across from side to side. fujimo is correct but you will lose oak ipe contrast. Ipe is a good belly wood and if you can get ipe then you can get maple. Maple and Ipe are awesome together and maple makes a good backing. The popular mechanic bow was made with lemonwood. A red oak bow at 62" n2n or tip 2 tip is doable but not for a first bow or a new bowyer. The Ipe is more forgiving than red oak. And backed with some straight grain quarter sawn maple a 62" bow is very doable. Save the redoak ipe glueup for the rhino attacks.

[Grey Taylor]

Ronnell, I can't help much with your bowery challenges but the way you write is just cracking me up. I'll be watching this thread for that, if nothing else... and I mean that in a good way.

Good luck!

Guy

[wazabodark]

Ok, I think I'm going to have to give up on this one after all. I had considered Fujimo's trilam idea, but I glued a pretty deep reflex into it, so I just don't think it would be a good idea.
I wonder if I can still save the belly though? Like I've already said, I've a lot of time invested in this, (and other), failed bows. If I don't produce a working weapon pretty soon my wife is going to make me sleep in the garage with the wood chips. And the spiders. I hate spiders.
  In the meantime, I have a couple of pieces of pecan that I talked a neighbor out of a few years ago. They're about six feet long each and still have bark on them. I know that pecan is a type of hickory, but I've heard mixed reviews about it for a bow wood. Any opinions?
  Thanks to all of you for your input. I'm having a great time.

[7 Lakes]

Time to start again.  Ipe is the belly wood and needs to be backed.  I can't see it working for a backing.  

Also, be sure to wear a mask when sanding the Ipe.  Many people are allergic and those that aren't can still suffer some lung damage.  That was the warning I got from my supplier anyway.