Author Topic: How-to... parallel/tapered cores  (Read 529 times)

Offline Bowjunkie

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How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« on: November 28, 2013, 10:23:00 AM »
Some folks were interested in how to taper cores for backed bows, tri-lams and such... namely full length cores with parallel midsections and tapered limbs. I didn't want to highjack the other thread, so here we are...

There are surely other ways to do it, but here's one way I've found to work straightforward and well.

I use an adjustable lam sled and a thickness sander.

If there are two pieces needing spliced, I do that first, then treat it the same as a single, solid, long piece.

Basically we will be grinding and tapering a long piece, from 60-70+ inches for instance, on a shorter lam sled... mine is 40" long.

The piece is already brought to adequate width, slightly wider than finished bow dimensions.

I run the piece through my thickness sander (no sled) until both faces are flat and parallel, and the piece is a uniform thickness equal to what I want the parallel/untapered midsection to be. This will also even up any thickness inconsistancies due to the splice, remove residual glue, etc. Following this step, the untapered midsection is DONE, and won't be ground further. All that is left to do is to taper the working limb areas.

I then lay out all of the length measurements for the bow, marking their location clearly along an edge... to include bow center, handle center, top and bottom of handle, flare locations, end of dip(fade) locations, and the string nock/groove locations. The dip/fade marks will be used as reference during the grinding process, the others will be used again later during glue-up and construction.

Since I want the piece to be parallel from dip to dip, then taper from each dip to its respective tip, I transfer the marks for the dip locations from the edge to the grinding surface of the slat, drawing these 2 lines across its width, so that I can clearly see where the dips will end and the tapers will begin. I do NOT want to grind these lines away, or further grind any of the wood that resides between them. As I noted previously, this area is done.

I then draw a long freehand pencil line on each limb, on the surfaces to be ground... from the dip location marks, the whole way to the tips... just a freehand squiggly line. This simply offers a visual reference to gauge the progression of the work, and watch the taper walk right up the limb and approach the dip area through succeeding passes and gradual thinning/tapering of the piece... allowing us to stop just shy of the dip area without going past it.

In this picture, the handle area is to the left and limb to the right.

   

The piece is fed in bow tip end first. This end is set flush with the end of the lam sled, on the sled's 'high side'. The limb that is NOT being ground on the current pass will overhang the trailing 'low' end of the sled, and be angled down and lower and will pass under the sanding drum without touching it. This picture is actually of the sled exiting the sander.

   

The thickness sander's table is initially set to 'just touch' the wood on the leading end(bow tip end) and after each pass the sander is adjusted to take off a little more. You'll see your pencil reference line on the grinding surface disappearing a little more on each pass, letting you know where the new beginning edge of the taper is located on the limb. Keep going, slowly/slightly adjusting the sander thinner on each pass until the taper is at the dip location... i.e. all of your freehand, squiggly reference line will have been removed. This typically takes several passes, or more. If you try to rush it and take too much at a time, there's a better chance that you'll overshoot the dip on your final pass. Go slow. It won't take long.

The limb is now tapered from dip to tip.

   

You can do one limb, then open your sander and start over on the other limb, OR, to expedite things, you can alternate... grind a single pass on one limb, flip the core end for end, putting the other limb on the lam sled, grind it... THEN adjust the thickness sander a little thinner and repeat.

It may help to write a #1 next to one dip, and a #2 next to the other to ensure you don't forget which one is next to be fed though... or skip a pass on a limb... which I've done   :)  

Grind limb #1.

Swap ends.

Grind limb #2.

Adjust table.

Repeat until you bring the taper to meet the dip/fade.

If you did an edequately accurate job of the initial thicknessing, the limb's tapers should approach their dips simultaneously... and you're done.

It actually doesn't take long at all to do.

I hope this makes sense. If you have any questions, fire at will    :archer2:

Online Roy from Pa

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Re: How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2013, 11:42:00 AM »
Thanks, Jeff..

Offline Bowjunkie

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Re: How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2013, 11:52:00 AM »
Does it make sense to you Roy?

Online Roy from Pa

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Re: How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2013, 12:00:00 PM »
Yupper.. Ya surprised? LOL

Offline Bowjunkie

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Re: How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2013, 12:53:00 PM »
Yes, surprised I was able to relay it in an understandable way  :)

Online Roy from Pa

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Re: How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2013, 02:09:00 PM »
You did well, I thought it would be about 5,000 words but ya kept it to 3,000:) LOL

How much wood, would you say is removed in the taper process? In other words what is the thickness at the riser compared to the tips when complete.  Thanks Bro..

Offline Bowjunkie

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Re: How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2013, 03:28:00 PM »
You make it whatever you want depending on the design and the limb action you're after, but how much is actually removed depends on limb length and degree of taper. On your standard d/r longbows, I would usually taper about .004 - .0045 per inch and see how that works for you.. It should result in 'about' 1/8" of taper in an average length bow with average length working limbs... which is a fair amount prior to any tillering.

Offline Buemaker

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Re: How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2013, 03:38:00 PM »
Very good.   :)  Bue--.

Online Roy from Pa

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Re: How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2013, 08:12:00 PM »
Ok thanks. We need to get together when my drum sander gets here. I have two 38" long sleds made out of oak, both have 1.5" wide slots routed out of the center, one slot is 1/2" deep and the other is 5/16th" deep. Then I have lam patterns of 1/32 to 1/16, 1/32 to 3/32, and 1/32 to 1/8. Also have one 1/32 to 1/32. Guess I'll have to practice and see what works best. But I fuggered I'd run a pass with the 1/32 to 1/16, then another pass with the 1/32 to 3/32, then another pass with the 1/32 to 1/8. Or just use the 1/32 to 1/8 and just adjust the drum a little closer  on each pass till I have the squiggly line gone up to the flare.

Offline Bowjunkie

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Re: How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2013, 11:23:00 PM »
Not flare. Taper only to the fade/dips... whichever you prefer to call them.

Changing the angle with each pass will lead likely to inconsistencies and I can't think of a benefit to doing so. I think you'd be better off choosing the sled to best suit your limb taper and using it from start to finish.

Online Roy from Pa

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Re: How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2013, 06:21:00 AM »
Ya meant dip not flare. I would only use one sled at a time. The sled with the 1/2 deep channel is for BBO belly slat taper. The sled with the 5/16 deep channel is for core lams. The pre tapered lam patterns I had Kenny M make were to be used with that redneck lam grinder I made, now that I have the new drum sander coming, I'm thinking I'll only need the 1/32 to 1/8th tapered pattern lam. And just adjust the drum down a little more with consecutive passes. When ya wanna come down and train me? :)

Offline Bowjunkie

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Re: How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2013, 07:39:00 AM »
Yes, and we may need to grind you some patterns at a steeper taper too. 3/32" is only .0025/1" on your 38" sled... which breaks down to just .070" taper in the working limb portion of a 66" bow... and would be even less in a shorter bow. That doesn't sound like enough, but there's only one way to find out... make a bow and see how the limbs bend.

Not enough taper isn't a huge deal on an all wooden bow because you can usually remove more wood afterwards... as long as you don't cut through to the glue line between the lams of a tri-lam. But the basic idea, especially with tri-lams, is to get as close to both the ideal taper/tiller AND thickness to hit target weight as possible prior to glue up.... not unlike planning and building laminated glass bows.

Got a digital caliper, calculator, and notebook handy?

Online Roy from Pa

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Re: How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2013, 07:59:00 AM »
I see your point on the 3/32. I have a manual and digital caliper, got the calculator and note book. I could put a little taper on the belly lam too for a tri lam. But when ya get a chance, make me another lam of 1/32 to 5/32 please. Or whatever thickness ya think I may need.

Offline Bowjunkie

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Re: How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2013, 09:43:00 AM »
1/32 to 5/32 isn't enough info.

I need exact dimensions... thickness, width, length, etc.

Online kennym

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Re: How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2013, 10:53:00 AM »
"not unlike planning and building laminated glass bows."

Get that Roy?
  :D
Stay sharp, Kenny.

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Offline Bowjunkie

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Re: How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2013, 10:59:00 AM »
:biglaugh:

Offline Bowjunkie

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Re: How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2013, 11:43:00 AM »
Roy, you'll need to keep notes to help on succeeding bows.

You mentioned making a center core of a tri-lam 5/16"? I just checked my notes on the b/o/o tri-lam I'm working on. Its center core is just a hair thinner than 3/16 at the dips and about 3/32 at the tips. I haven't put it on the tree yet, but it feels like there's plenty of weight there. It's 62" ntn and has about the same amount of deflex and reflex as the last one you made.... maybe just a wee bit more.

Online Roy from Pa

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Re: How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2013, 12:27:00 PM »
Hey McKuzie girl, watch your tongue boy:)

No Jeff, my "one" sled has a 7/32nd deep X 1.5" wide channel routed out of it. I had planned on starting with a 1/4" thick core lam, then after running it through the sander with different thickness of my lam patterns underneath it, it would end up getting much thinner to get it where I wanted it. Because my redneck lam grinder had a fixed platform and not adjustable. But that is all out the window now since I have that drum sander on it's way here:) So I can use the sleds I had made or maybe some guy from Butler will build his buddy Roy one just like he has:) HINT...

Here is the one sled and the pattern lams along side it. But now I can just use a board if I want and lay the pattern lams under the core lam. But I'll fugger it  out when I get my new toy:)

Let's see your setup Kenny smarty pants..     :laughing:    

   

     

Those pattern lams all start at 1/32nd thick on the thin end, but each one is a little thicker on the other end. From 1/16th, to 3/32nd, to 1/8th. Another one might even be 5/32nd on the thick end and the other one is a straight 1/32 to 1/32 for a filler.

Online kennym

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Re: How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2013, 01:26:00 PM »
I got a simple setup, just different tapers for different rates of taper. From .0005 to .003 per inch taper or any combo of the above.

4.25" x 36" x about .250" thick

Just slap the lams on em and grind away.

If you settle on say .002 per inch, make yourself a 2" wide x 1.4" thick mini sled and run thru the bandsaw with the pc to be cut. Much less grinding!!   :thumbsup:
Stay sharp, Kenny.

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Online Roy from Pa

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Re: How-to... parallel/tapered cores
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2013, 01:51:00 PM »
Does anything special need to be done to keep the lam in place when sanding. Seems like Jeff has sand paper adhered to the top of his sled. Or does the pressure from the feed rollers hold it all in place?

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