Just a quick question before I go further...

[RedStag5728]

Hey guys, so I cut some shagbark hickory trees back in August to make some staves from. I split them twice into quarters (from half to quarters), and the bark was sealed shut on the staves. So I figured I'd let them dry with the bark on and remove it later.

Well today I got the itch to work on getting that bark off and so I took my draw knife and started working away at it. Got down to the inner-bark and started scraping through it to get to the growth ring when I remembered that some leave this inner-bark as camo on the back of hickories.

Well I want to know for future reference and for this stave as well, how much is the maximum to leave before it becomes cumbersome or hurtful for your bow?

I think for this stave I am going to get the majority of the inner-bark off. It's going to take some time scraping the stuff, but hey it's another process. For this year I am going to try to harvest trees just after the leaves start to come out.

Also would it be ok to go ahead and cut the stave as is now to dimensions and then finish removing the inner-bark afterwards?

The dimensions I am going with is 66" NTN, 4"x 1.25x1.25" handle section with 2" fades extending out to mid limb then tapering to 1/2" tips. Thickness is going to be 7/8" at fades feathering out to 1/2" thick tips. I want this bow to be 50-55# at my draw (~27")

Here's some pix:

 

 

 

 

 

[Wolftrail]

Don't know much about Hick,  but just wanted to chime in none the less because I noticed it looks like you set up shop in the kitchen.  Whoa....... :D     talk about the Bow Addiction taking over.  Looks good though.

[Roy from Pa]

If you peel the bark off hickory when the tree is still green, it pulls off very easily, almost in one piece and what's left is the back of the bow.

[RedStag5728]

Lol Wolftrail, thanks and don't worry this is in the upstairs of our detached garage. Got about 720 square feet of shop space up there. And that kitchen table is an old one, we set it up there for storage and it eventually became my work table lol! Kinda hate it though, it's not too stable and wobbles easy when I'm scraping and draw-knifing.

Roy, after I cut these trees the bark was hard to get off. So I figured I'd wait til they dried and try it, but this inner-bark is as hard as the growth rings of the tree. Like I said I am going to try to harvest after the leaves come out (say May). And see if that makes a difference.

[Roy from Pa]

Ya if you cut them when the sap is up, the bark will peel right off.. I'd cut them in September.

[RedStag5728]

I'm reading two different things here, I cut these in late August and the bark is glued, but then I read in another   post   early in the growing season once the leaves come out.

[Iron Eagle]

Pignut,mockernut, and shagbark is about all I've ever used for selfbows because its what I have around me. Late April-early August seem to be the best in VA to cut hickory the bark has always came off for me. I have cut plenty in the fall and winter also. What I like to do is give it a hot shower or hot bath for 10-15min. Then take a scraper or my what I like to use is a butter knife and scrape it off it comes off fairly easy. If it cools down just put it back in the hot water. I also like to get mine close to dimensions not exact but close and take the inner bark off.

[RedStag5728]

Thanks Iron Eagle, and Roy I am not saying your wrong, it may be a manner of geography and it may also be species. All we have around here is mostly Shagbarks. We have Red oaks, white oaks, chesnut oaks, red maples and shagbarks.

I'll try that hot shower idea next time, I have read before on something like that, just wish I would have done a little more homework before harvesting these. Oh well, every step is a learning lesson.

[John Scifres]

You can lay out the bow now. Take as much of the inner bark off as you like later.

[RedStag5728]

Thanks John! Are those dimensions I posted a good starting point?

[Pat B]

Your length and back profile should be fine but the thickness will be determined as you tiller.

[George Tsoukalas]

Those measurements are fine.  I may make the handle 1.5 inches thick instead of 1.25. If you find it wide(don't know what you want)for your target weight begin to narrow it. You can see if it gets too thin.

I do not shape handles until full. I don't want to waste time if it is going to...  :(
It also fits better in my rope and pulley if left unshaped.

Same with nocks...in case I have to make adjustments to track the string.

Leave some inner bark and here and there as you see fit.
Jawge

[RedStag5728]

Thanks Pat B. and George! The only reason I went with 1.25 is I read it in the BBI (Bow Builders Bible) that this was Jim Bakers preferred handle size, so I just used it a guideline. I drew the outline of the bow today, so it can be an easy adjustment. And I agree, it's better to start off too big now, and then if it is too wide I can shorten it later.

As far as tillering goes, I plan on using the method that my bowying mentor used which was the "V" method. I may make the tillering gizmo as well just so I have both methods. To be honest this is my 2nd attempt at a build, my first was an osage that failed (my fault of course; got too much into a hurry towards the end). So this build I am going slow.

The only thing so far that I have found with this stave is a high crown. Which shouldn't be too much of a problem since I am going with 2" wide limbs for most part of the limb right?

[John Scifres]

Your dimensions should be fine.  However, carrying 2" to midlimb would not be my choice.  That's a lot of mass out past midlimb that is probably not doing much work.  I would either decrease that to 1-3/4" or go with a pyramid design tapering straight from the 2" to the tips.

The density of the particular piece would impact those dimensions also.

The most important thing to consider for your second bow is to get going on it. Don't expect greatness.  It takes a few bows before you can get good at this.  If fear of failure or ruining the wood is causing paralysis by overanalysis then you need to change your expectations.

[RedStag5728]

yeah that's a good point because I was noticing that at 2" there's not much thickness at those lines because 2" gets me about a half inch from the edge of the stave. So I think I will change and do a pyramid shape.

Haha thanks John, that's me to a T. I actually have another Osage orange stave that's dry and ready to be made into a bow, but I'm holding off on it to build my confidence and experience up before potentially ruining a great stave.

[RedStag5728]

Ok guys just an update, I have reduced the stave to width dimensions (2" at fades straight taper to 1/2" nocks) and before I reduce the stave to thickness I wanted to go ahead and get that inner-bark off. I remembered when cutting the stave it's growth rings are paper thin and so when removing the inner-bark I am afraid I may have violated the outer growth ring (I scraped all the inner-bark off using a cabinet scraper).

I have read that hickory can stand a little violation, but i wonder if I should worry, and if it would be a good idea to back it? I thought about going with either the artificial snakeskin backing from 3-rivers or the rawhide backing. What do you guys think?

Because of the weather I am going to wait to get back to work on the bow when it warms back up (by the end of the week) because my shop doesn't have heat. As soon as it warms up some I will get some pictures and post them.

For my thickness I decided to go with 1.5" at handle, 7/8" thick at fades, 3/4" thick at mid-limb and then 5/8" at tips.

[takefive]

Hickory is tough stuff so I don't think I'd be too worried about a little violation on the back.  I haven't made one from a stave yet, but I've made two hickory bows from boards and have used it for a backer on a few other ones.  All of them were bias sawn with less than perfectly straight grain and they held up fine.

[RedStag5728]

Thanks Take five,

For this bow I'll try it and see without a backing, and if it breaks, I'll add a backing on the next one. I've got 8 staves so odds are good that at least one will become a bow      

[RedStag5728]

Another update:

Got some time to work in the shop a little today, it's raining outside so I tried to spend as much time as I could and got a bit accomplished. Finished getting all of the inner-bark off, re-drew the profile lines and then got the profile finalized and perfect, and got the handle roughed out. All I've got to do now is get the thickness profile, and let 'er finish drying out (she's at 12 percent MC), and then it's tillerin' time!

I started with popping a chalk line for the new centerline but didn't like how it turned out (was leaving residue all over the back) so I tried cleaning it off with acetone and just smeared it            

Now that I've got the profile finalized and the handle to snuff I can clean off the back completely.

But here's some pictures so far.

   

 

   

   

   

[takefive]

Looks like a nice stave; really straight and I don't see any knots.  Keep us posted