Osage--boards?

[TomBow]

I see many O.Orange staves available for sale, but not a whole lot of dimensional lumber.  I keep hearing "Osage is THE wood to use to make a bow" due to it's forgiving nature.  And believe-you-me, I need some forgiveness.  I have made 4 board bow attempts, maple-bamboo flooring backed, red-oak unbacked, hickory-automotive fiberglass cloth 1-layer backed and red oak-heavy duty drywall tape 2-layer backed.  Each bow was a step closer but ultimately failed, which was me pushing the wood too much too soon.  So are Osage boards A:available, B: good to use for bow building C: requiring a backing?  Please advise oh gurus who produce successful bow builds.  Thanks.

[macbow]

Staves are more readily available because someone in decent shape can harvest the log and split it into staves.
Harvesting a Osage log and taking it to be milled into boards requires  more work and cost.

Board billets that have to be spliced at the handle are available.

Osage boards,or billets many times are backed with bamboo or hickory because the rings are cut through on the back of the bow.
If you wanted to have a good chance of building a Osage bow starting with a stave and chasing a ring on the back is your best bet.

[Pat B]

I agree with macbow. A stave is he way to start.

[takefive]

Having made all of one bow from a stave (Osage), I'll defer to macbow and Pat.  I've made bamboo and hickory backed bows using Osage boards for the belly.  Pine Hollow Longbows sells full length (6' X 2" X 5/8") boards as well as billets and the ones I've bought from him have always been quality boards.  They aren't cheap; $50 plus $25 shipping, but neither is a good stave if you can't cut your own.  I usually make tri-lams so I can get two belly lams from one board.   Osage is the best bow wood I've worked with.  It's strong, very elastic, easy to heat bend, and has beautiful grain.  Stave or board?  Can't go wrong either way.  Make sure you back the board, though.    

[LESKEN2011]

I got pretty lucky and ran across some osage lumber and have had good success with several bows from it. The grain wasn't that great so I always back it with straight grained hickory, hard maple, or bamboo. If the grain is not too bad you could probably get away with rawhide as a backer. I have a few not-so-straight osage staves, so I haven't made the stave plunge yet.

[TomBow]

Thanks to all for your replies and opinions.  I have been trying to work with lumber from the big hardware stores and straight grained boards are NOT what they are milling boards to achieve.  Yes the boards are pretty but getting a straight grain is like finding the needle in the hayFIELD.  
Pine Hollow is one source for Osage, any others and what about sources for Bamboo?  I have Dean Torges' ..Bamboo backed bow video, TBB 1 and The Bent Stick for references, I just need to get some decent materials to work with...and have the patience to let it happen, rather than try and force it to happen (making a bow, that is).
Thanks again, once again TradGangers have come to the rescue in my quest.

[takefive]

I share your frustration in trying to find good, straight grained boards.  There is a hardwood lumberyard an hour from me that has red elm, hard maple, and hickory boards.  They're nice enough to let me look through their whole inventory, but I'm lucky to find one or two that are straight enough for bows.  Pine Hollow also carries bamboo for backing.  3 Rivers may have Osage and bamboo also.  I'm happy with the boards I get from Pine Hollow, so I haven't tried elsewhere.  You could check Echo Archery, too.

[ishoot4thrills]

Is it really necessary to get perfect, straight grained osage boards if you're gonna put a bamboo or hickory backing on it anyway? The growth rings are violated anyway so what difference does it make?    

[J.F. Miller]

no, straight grain is not necessary. I'm pretty sure every piece of board stock I've ever worked on had plenty of grain violations. it's almost irrelevant when backing with bamboo, hickory, etc.

[TomBow]

Hmm, Bamboo will hold it together, guess I could try another Store-board, Osage just has a great reputation for being something an extreme beginner such as myself might be able to produce a bow from.  After the four failures, I need better odds for success, of course getting the design correct, etc, and again I must say to myself "..patience, grasshoppah!"

[Roy from Pa]

Tom, you can't beat Osage. Rather it's a stave or a board, Osage is the best wood for making bows. I suggest Pine Hollow Longbows for your Osage board. They also sell bamboo or hickory for a backing.

[macbow]

Tom just backing a regular board wood with bamboo isn't the same as using Osage.
A lot of woods don't have enough compression strength to take the bamboo as a backing.

Woods that can work IPE , Cumaru, hickory maybe.

[Black Mockingbird]

Trying to fix your problem by using a different species of wood won't necessarily solve your problems...if you broke a backed hickory then chances are good you'll break a backed osage too..or maybe not cus hopefully you've learned something now from your failures...trying to apply duct tape to fix it isn't the right way to go IMO...either you selected poor grained wood and was doomed before even starting,or your having problems tillering,or both perhaps...or design too. Why not post your failures here so folks can diagnose what is going wrong for you...sure osage is great and the best IMO...but it won't solve any of the aforementioned possible issues your having. Proper chosen wood that is designed and executed well with a good tiller trumps wood species EVERY time...if its a proven known bow wood it don't matter....design,execution, n tiller with properly chosen wood is waaaay more important

[Roy from Pa]

Ah what does a mocking bird know? LOL  

[Black Mockingbird]

Lol Roy....hopefully I've learned a thing or two now after well over 100 something bows made/attempted(lost count)out of more species of wood I can count twice on all my toes n fingers  

[Roy from Pa]

Ok ya glue sniffer..  

[TomBow]

Well, I have learned from my reading that the failures are very likely due to "aggressive tillering".  The last attempt had a pyramid profile and I tapered from the fades directly to the tips, from 2.0625" to 7/16ths at the nocks.  The failure occurred just above the upper limb fade.  I may have faded too abruptly there but also ended up with limb thickness at the fade being just a touch less than the upper part of the limb.  Probably should have gone wider to begin with.  I believe another issue is my lack of a tillering string, instead using a string which is just a bit too short to be loose when I string the bow.  I have been using a stringer to put the string on so have really been stringing the bow WAY too early in the process.  My first failure, bamboo T-flooring with the T-leg worked off backed/poor grained maple, was caused by trying to string the bow with a too short string, again stringing too early AND trying to force the bow when the wood was not ready or just couldn't take bending that much.  The top 8" of the limb broke completely off through the wood and the bamboo, which was stranded bamboo, not a solid piece.  I've been making do with what I have on hand instead of having the proper tools (ie: a tillering string) from the onset.  Dang this dumb ole learning curve (I got a DOOZY!).   I have achieved what appears to be good looking tiller when the bow is on the Till.tree for all attempts but design aspects, wood grain layout and the fact that I have essentially strung the bow too early are likely culprits causing failure.  Probably watched too many Y-tube videos and got a bit too "rushy" with my production.  On the bright side, I have multiple finish-testing bows to work with in an effort to find out what stain/finish combination looks the best.  

Second and third attempts (#2 unbacked red oak board from STORE, #3 single fiber-cloth layer backed hickory board from STORE) were "design-aggressive", narrower overall compared to #4.  So again my theory of mistakes is:
1: essentially stringing the bow instead of using a tillering string which has caused too much stress in the wood.
2: design, forcing the stress in to too small an area limb width
3: materials used
4: possible too harsh an angle on fades
5: pulling the bow too far (to too high a poundage) too soon in the process

In all cases, I was careful to exercise the limbs after removing wood but I have to admit that #5 happened too often, in hindsight.  Where DID I leave my patience?      
I will try and get some pics up sometime soon

[Roy from Pa]

Is that all, Tom? LOL

[Eric Krewson]

I guess people get tired of me interjecting this in almost every failed bow thread;

Do you use a tillering gizmo? It will prevent you from tillering too aggressively it you listen to it.

Here is a how to;

 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=001047#000000

[TomBow]

The "gizmo" I have used was just a 4" block of wood,  ran it on the belly side and looked at the amount and shape of the light between the gizmo and the belly, then marked areas of flatter spots to remove wood from.  I like the tapered ends and will make one similar to your's soon.  Thanks for the info.