fast flight

[stack]

When building a bow what do you do to it to make it for a fast flight string? Also can you do fast flight strings as Flemish twist? We are starting to try our hand at building bows. We will be working off the Binghams 62" hybrid and will most likely be asking a lot of questions as we go along.

Thanks
Stack

[macbow]

The main thing is good overlays in the bows string nock on the tips.
Yes you can make Flemish fast flight strings, I prefer them.

[Carpdaddy]

Yes; Flemish twist works well on my D97 strings. I always use Phenolic on the tips or some other hard material like antler to protect them from damage from the fast flight strings. I like to use two colors of phenolic or wood over the phenolic for appearance.

[BigJim]

The secret to a very durable fast flite tip is having fibers going both length wise and cross wise. You can get this in phenolic or woven glass. I wouldn't trust horn or wood alone...not that they couldn't work, but they are not nearly as strong as the other.
bigjim

[Carpdaddy]

Big Jim is an old rat in the barn, I would go with his advise. I should have been more clear when I mentioned antler or wood, I only use these over the phenolic for appearance, not as the primary source of protection.

[bamboo]

G-10!!

[Jon in North Idaho]

Always an interesting subject...

My opinion is much different than most, and is kind of a trade secret which I won't get much into.  The shaping of the nock has more to do with it than the material used.

This is coming from successful testing shooting wood only tips (no overlays) with steel airline cable as a string.  Yes, you read that right - no, don't ask for details.  Like I said, top-secret on this one...

[PEARL DRUMS]

I use FF on every bow I own, even my old early 60's Kodiak mag. I also have an old Pearson with no overlays I use FF on. Plus every bow I build gets one, overlays or not. Horn, not antler, is my favorite material.

[Echatham]

hasn't hurt any of my osage bows yet

[last arrow]

I think another key is not overbuilding the string for the bow.  My rule of thumb is 5 to 7 times the weight of the bow. For example, for a  45 lb bow the string should have  225 lbs to 315 lb tensile strength.  A typical dacron string is about 20 lbs per strand so that would needs 11 to 16 strand string.  The TS Plus string I am using has about a 40 lb per strand strength so I use 6 - 8 strands for 45 lbs.  As most of my bows are between 45 and 55 lbs I use 8 strands on all of them to make things simple.  

This is based on some old publications from the 50's and 60's that advised this based on allowing the string to absorb more of the shock from shooting and not placing it all on the limb tip.

I prefer  endless loop strings as I can make them more consistently and because all the Bear Recurves of my youth came with endless loop strings.

[cunruhshoot]

I use FF on all my bows and I rarely use anything but wood for my nock overlays - usually match them to the riser wood. I have never had any issues or failures with nocks.  Having said that i like Bigjim's insight and may look into incorporating some additional overlay materials.

[fujimo]

ok, in the same vein... i have some fast flite plus coming- i was using 12 strands of B50 for my 50# bows- what should i be using with the ff+?

is ts plus the same as fast flite plus-last arrow
thanks

[mikkekeswick]

3 strands is enough....but that's as lot of serving!
The rule for string strength is 4 x bow weight.
50# bow only NEEDS a 200# string.
Most ff strings (dyneema) break at about 65 - 75#.
It's worth doing a break test on any new material.
Personally I normally use a flemish twist string with 8 strands and then bulk out the ends with B50 to 16 strand.
As for the nocks just make sure there is a flat shoulder for the string to sit on. If you just file in a groove on the side of the limb then it ends up with an angle that goes to zero = weak. Take an 1/8th off that angle so you have a flat shoulder. No problems.

[PEARL DRUMS]

The approach taken would vary greatly if I was selling hundreds of bows to the general (uneducated quite often) population. They have to be almost bomb proof and almost fool proof or your name is mud over night. I don't have that pressure and use what works for me and my bows.

[fujimo]

thanks for the info- not sure i understand the details about the nock- any pictures?

[stack]

so as far as overlays go, would the cutoffs from the end of the lams work? What about gluing glass to glass or would you sand off the bottom layer of glass? Also what type of glue would you use. I want to thank every one for all the answers, really gives a guy something to think about.

[PEARL DRUMS]

I don't build glass bows. I use Loctite Professional for all my overlays on wood bows and wood laminate bows.

[fujimo]

my fast flite arrived   :D  

do i need to pre- stretch it before i make a string, like i did my with the B50.
i used to reel off how much i was going to use, then hang it from a nail, with #100 worth of rocks in a bucket on the other end, overnight- then i made up the strings- and they all fitted exactly!

do i need to do this with the fast flite plus???

[Roy from Pa]

Nope.

[fujimo]

ta mate!