My First Bow, BBI Build Along

[Pyro43]

Hi everyone. I'm glad to be part of this forum, though I'll admit that this is new for me. I've decided to get back into archery, mostly for hunting but also for fun, and I definitely want to go the traditional route. I have been learning a lot from everyone on here up until now, there are a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum. I'll say now for the first time of many, thanks to anyone that shares their knowledge, and I hope to be able to contribute myself as I gain some of my own.

    I am taking the plunge and building my first bow, I've made a few out of PVC to get a feel for what I want. I've decided on a Hybrid Longbow to start off with, my resources wont allow me to make a recurve. I am by no means a bowyer obviously, but I have worked with wood my whole life, along with doing other trades, and I hope those skills will cut down the learning curve for me. I tend to take risks though, so I'm going to take this slow and try to get whatever advice from you guys that you are willing to offer. I don't want to fail, but I'm not afraid of a challenge either, I think you'll see what I mean when you see the design I've settled on.

So to start off with these are my goals.
  1-Looking for around 70-75# @ 28", 68-70" NTN
    after the bow takes set I'd be happy with
    65#, I determined my draw weight with my
    PVC protos
  2-I'm using Bamboo for backing, Ipe for belly
  3-I've selected a more dramatic reflex/deflex      
    that will probably kick my butt when it
    comes to tillering, but unless I get too  
    much feedback in the contrary, I'm pretty
    set on the design. (risky is what I said  
       )

Here is an image of the form that I made, the middle section I still need to cut out for my handle blank:

 

Here is my handle design along with the woods I'm going to use, Cherry, Zebra, and Bloodwood:

   

So I guess what I'm looking for is any comments based on what I have given so far. I have a piece of ipe 3/4" x 1 1/4" x 72". I got them from Tenbrook Archery and they look like some really good pieces from what little I understand. If anyone has any idea of what size to preshape the ipe/bamboo to before glueup it would be very much appreciated. I'm mostly worried about the taper, I want to take as much off as possible to aid in gluing, without taking too much off for my draw weight.
 I plan on using heat to prebend the handle section so there isn't any stress on the glue joint causing the handle to pop off later. I've done a lot of research, and the ipe doesn't heat bend very well but I wont be as worried about damaging the wood in the handle area from the high heat needed to bent it. But I'll see when I get to that point, if it doesn't' work I'll be doing a straight handle, I would cut the ipe into thinner strips and glue it that way, but I don't have access to the tools needed to do that.
Anyway, I'm going be prepping the wood for glueup this week I hope. I've never taken pictures of a project I've done as I build it, so I'm going to make a big effort to get plenty. I know that is what a lot of people like, and I like to see in others posts.
Anyway, sorry for the long first post. I'm excited to get started down what I hear is a slippery slope      

Chris

[mikkekeswick]

First off heavier bows are much harder to make than lighter ones....as you'll find out!
Your form looks good but don't cut out the handle blank piece. You can glue your handle on without the form. Glue the limbs up first then remove from the form and then simply clamp the riser pieces to the bow blank.
My advice is to either cut it to that shape and then sand to fit the curve or use lots of thin pieces that will conform to the curve.
Forget the heat idea for your handle pieces it just won't work.
for that design I would start out with a 0.004 taper glued in.
This easier to do with a core wood. Maple, cherry, ash etc.
Your bamboo should be around 1/8th thick at the center to about 1/16th at the tips. Use your 'finger calipers' to judge that you have no thick/thin spots before glue-up.
Depending on core thickness your ipe should be around 1/4 inch parallel thickness. I would make the core a 1/4 thick at the butt ends. 1 1/4 width is going to be tight - so leave it full width.
Your width taper is pretty key with these sort of bows i've found it best to keep full width to at least mid-limb then taper to 1/2 nocks (which you can narrow once nearing full draw and you know how stable it is).
Marking out a dead straight centerline is very important.
Goo luck.

[macbow]

Your calling it a aggressive D/R but with that form it will turn out to be a very mild R/D. Reason being especially with that type form there will be "spring back" when taken off the form. You might get half that with the weight your going for.

Look up Roy's post,from PA. He has some photos of his form.
I use the same type. It is,easily adjustable for the amount of R/D.
Trying to bend thick IPE is tough. It certainly will make a heavy bow.
Might start with 1/2 inch thick in center tapering .004 to tips .
Width 1 1/4 wide for 1/3 of way to tips then taper to 3/8 inch wide at,tips.
Do all this before,glue up.
Bamboo like Mike said.

You would be much better of like Mike suggested with a different core wood that would leave enough IPE for 2 bows.
Must be someone around with a bandsaw.
Good building.

[LittleBen]

X2 on splitting that Ipe for two bows.

Trying to bend 3/4" Ipe is gonne be like trying to bend 3/4" re-bar. That stuff is hard!

Also, the thicker the Ipe when you glue it up, the more spring back you're going to get off the form. I think Mike and Macbow said it right on the other stuff as well.

As an aside, a lighter weight bow is easier to make, shoot, and pass around to your friends. Unless you're grizzly hunting, it's also not necessary. And lastly, a well made bow of 50-60lbs may shoot faster that a not as well made 70#er.

An example ... I recently finished a 70# @26" BBI with mild RD and 58" ttt, and even though the tips are stupidly narrow for nearly 12" and the bow shows little set, it is not nearly as fast as my much better made 62# hickory-walnut-Ipe tri-lam.

My point, arrow speed/KE/momentum is what counts, not how much the string hurts your fingers to draw.

P.S. I am a wimp about draw weight and not ashamed of it.

Looking forward to seeing it come along!

[Pyro43]

Thanks Mike for the advice, I was trying to decide if I should glue the handle after, that's what I'll be doing now. I figured along what you said about bending the ipe, I'm too stubborn not to at least try it, but I know it may not work like I want. This a one forum I was basing the idea off of,  tradgang: heat bending ipe
 
The info on the bamboo and ipe taper/thickness is just what I was looking for, thanks. Although both you and Mac referenced .004 taper, I'm not sure what that is, I'll do some reading on the forums. I wish I had access to a band saw, I'm still newish to Arizona and no one I know has one.

Mac would you suggest changing the form then to get more R/F out of it? I guess that looked more aggressive than some I've seen, but I'm no expert. And I knew I'd lose some after glue up and tillering, I guess I didn't realize how much. I've seen several maker's bows with a lot of R/D and I not only like the look but the potential efficiency. If I were to change the form, I'm thinking an Inch or so gradually added to the tips, more reflex, would help. I don't want to add too much more delfex for fear of making my brace height to high, plus I don't think I could get that ipe to bend much more than it is at the handle.

Thanks Mike and Mac, I appreciate your feedback. I'll post some more pics as I start getting it to shape and dry testing in the form.

[Pyro43]

Thanks LittleBen. I really thought about using the ipe as the core and putting bamboo on the belly, But that requires a few more tools than I have right now. I'm going for what BowHunter15 did in his build, just with a bend in the handle    BBI build .

I have heard of what you are saying about the weight vs efficiency. And is something I'll be taking into account as I go along. Especially because this will be my first bow, first tiller, etc. I may have to drop the weight simply to get the tiller right if I make a mistake. That's why if I get a 65# bow when I'm done, I'll be plenty happy with that. But a working 55-60# bow with a good tiller wont be thrown away either  

[Pyro43]

So here is what I got done today. I'm a hand tool guy right now, I've always wanted to understand traditional woodworking, as I figured it would greatly enhance my woodworking skills when using power tools. So this last year I bought a bunch of hand planes, chisels, etc. to get started. And I have really enjoyed learning how to get the results I need out of these old tools. I'll be using these on this bow build

This first picture is me planing down the already shaped bamboo with my Stanley #4.          
  I was surprised how well bamboo hand planed. I thought for sure I'd have tons of tearout, especially around the nodes. But taking some knowledge I obtained while working some particular difficult grained wood, I had already set up the chipbreaker to within .5-1mm from the edge. With a less than newly sharpened blade this is what I got.
         
 
     
 
Hardly any tearout, I could probably get zero tearout if I really tried. I'm not sure how many of you guys on this forum like to do woodworking apart from building bows, but you will find this video very informative if you use hand planes much.    
Anyway, back to the build. I took me a while, maybe 2-3 hours to get the bamboo down to thickness. I took it slow and had to learn how to plane it evenly, the nodes make it difficult cause it flexes between them. Got it to around a 3/16" center thickness at the handle area, after sanding to rough up and even out any low spots here is what I got.
           
         

It's got some twist, but my tip centers are lined up straight.
 
I clamped the ipe down and had a few goes at it just to see how much work I'm in for. This stuff is as hard as the bloodwood I've worked with. Plane mostly skips over the top, I have to angle it to get it to dig in. There is some tearout too, luckily after the scraping from tillering I won't have to worry about it.          
I'll sharpen the blade real well before I got at it again, but besides some sweat and sore muscles, it won't take too much to get it to the size I want. I can't wait to get it in the form for glue up.

By the way, it was a nice sunny 115 F today here in the valley of the sun. I had shade to work in, but I think I'll call the next couple weeks as I build this bow the Bowyers Diet Plan. I think I drank a gallon in the few hours was out there.
 
Stay tuned.
Chris

[takefive]

That is nice work with a plane and scraper.  The only bamboo I've flattened by hand I used a rasp, scraper, and coarse sandpaper.  It took more than a few hours.  Do you have a coarse rasps, like a farrier's rasp?  I've never used Ipe, but I've rasped hickory, osage, and bubinga and it works nice if you have a lot of wood to remove.
Good luck with your build  

[Pyro43]

I can't imagine doing it with only a rasp and sandpaper, lol. I do have set of rasps and files for wood, I'll give it a try, but I'll bet the plane is still faster. It's funny because until I learned how to properly use a plane I had no idea how much can be done with them. Most of my woodworking projects I don't even have to sand cause the proper plane leaves a better finish. Referring back to what I said in the last post, that is one reason I'm glad I learned how to use them. Building a bow isn't anything like a cabinet though, so I look forward to learning how to apply the tools I have to bowyering.

[LittleBen]

Looking good so far. I think your insight into woodworking in general will be much appreciated.

[macbow]

Looking good. IPE is some hard stuff.

If you decide to plane down another bamboo slat a 10 to 12 inch wide by 6 foot piece of the blue foam board used for housing insulation is good to lay the node side of the bamboo on.
It will let the nodes dig in some and support in between nodes.
I use this with my thickness planer.

[Pyro43]

That's a good idea Macbow, I figured there had to be a better way. I'll be doing that on the next one, I'm sure there'll be more bows down the road.

[BigErn]

Originally posted by macbow:
Looking good. IPE is some hard stuff.

If you decide to plane down another bamboo slat a 10 to 12 inch wide by 6 foot piece of the blue foam board used for housing insulation is good to lay the node side of the bamboo on.
It will let the nodes dig in some and support in between nodes.
I use this with my thickness planer.

Thanks for the info!I have been adding these tips to a word document,got about nine pages so far.
                             Ernie

[John Scifres]

Make your bamboo thinner. Measure on the sides and make it less than 1/16" on the sides.  And even.

[macbow]

BigErn.
Like to see you post up your notes some day.

[Pyro43]

I wasn't sure how thin to go, I'm still shooting for around 70# so I didn't want to go too thin and have the ipe overpower the bamboo. I still need to sand it to even out a few more spots and rough it up for glueup, I get it closer to the 1/16 edge.

On that note, I'll be using Unibond 800 and I wasn't sure how much I need to rough up the surface. Any recommendations? I don't have a toothing plane blade yet, but I figured some low grit sandpaper would work well. I'm thinking around 40 grit, too low or too high?

[macbow]

Agree with John bamboo is  still too thick.
All the strength in the bamboo in in the fibers on the outside.
It is best thin.

[John Scifres]

Use a hacksaw blade to rough up the surfaces.

[Pyro43]

Will do, thanks guys. Hacksaw blade is a good idea, I've got a few of those lying around.

[macbow]

I use unibond 800, on my light weight kids bows I don't score the wood or,bamboo. Over a 100 bows and no glue problems.

On hunting weight bows and heavier I score with toothing plane or hacksaw.