My First Bow, BBI Build Along

[macbow]

You've done well to this point. I like the angle on your tip overlays.

[macbow]

There are a lot of opinions on the tillering.
Going slow is always good. I would establish the dips on each end of the handle to a,smooth transition.

I have my guys then stay away from working on the dips or fades more till the bow is floor tillered especially getting the main reflexed part of the limbs bending some.

[Pyro43]

So I started tillering today. After I got my background grid done up and the tillering tree finished.

I marked my handle on the bow and did the first parts of the fades or dips like MacBow said. the transitions between the woods look good, can't wait to get them sanded smooth and oiled up.

   

Here is the bow strung with a string as tight as it would go without bending the limbs, I think you guys call it a loose string.

   

I then proceeded to work the limbs one inch at a time roughly thirty times each before pulling one more inch down. Here are three pics each one inch more than the last.

1"
   

2"
   

3"
   

As far as I can tell so far they seem to be bending evenly. At about 3 inches of pull I'm getting about 50#s on my scale. So I obviously have a long ways to go.

If I understand correctly. I don't ever want to pull any harder past my intended draw wieght, right?    

From here, do I want to refine and finish my width taper before starting to remove bellywood? I'd like to get it to 3/8" at the tips if that isn't too narrow, starting my taper about 12" from the tips.

Or do I want to start taking off bellywood to work towards my goal weight, and an even limb tiller?

[Pyro43]

I'll wait for some feedback before I go too far. But I took maybe 50 scrapes with a card scraper off of each limb, about 10 each time followed by exercising. Hasn't made a huge difference yet. But this is what it looks like at 5". it is pulling about 65#, I can't go any further until it drop the weight some. But should I keep scraping bellywood, or narrow my tips to close to my final thickness? Thanks guys
   

[takefive]

I haven't used ipe and I've never made a bow that heavy, but here goes...Once I get the tips moving 8" or so with the long string, I'll brace the bow just so the string is taut.  And that's not easy to do if your tillering string is stretchy stuff like B50, it always takes some adjusting, twisting the string up until it holds.  A taut string will give a truer picture of how the limbs are bending than the long string.  I keep tillering until I can raise the brace to a couple of inches and eventually to full brace of 5 to 6 inches.
I usually narrow the tips when I'm within a couple of inches of my target weight, but you can probably do it at any time.

[macbow]

Looking good.takefive is,right on with the long string vs braced string. The long string pulls on the end differently, in another words the long string lies.

I would finish your width profile befor finishing your major tillering.

Then remove more first in the bent area, middle , of the limbs. These need to start bending to take some pressure from the dips.

[mikkekeswick]

I actually use the long string for longer than most. The only difference between a low brace and the long string is that the tips will come around a little more when braced. That said I totally agree that you should brace it low when you can. A fastflight tillering string will really help with this one!

[J.F. Miller]

I use my long string a little more than is absolutely necessary, but once I get the limbs moving to a real brace height or slightly more, say 8" or so, I'm in a hurry to get it braced. if you want to wind up with a 65lb bow, you will need a bow stringer to get it strung for a while. you have to be a little aggressive early on when making heavy draw weight bows or you will come up short. gotta get the limbs moving enough to show you something while they are very heavy. is important to recognize that draw weight is reduced by stock removal AND compression on the belly.

also, before you start bending those limbs very far you should chamfer the corners on the bamboo backing and establish facets on the belly, or at least chamfer the corners on the belly as well. rounded corners much less likely to raise a splinter

[macbow]

Really good point on chamfering those corners. After each session before putting back on the tree.

[macbow]

Really good point on chamfering those corners. After each session before putting back on the tree.

[Pyro43]

So I have just been working on the bow for a few minutes here and there the last few days. I haven't gotten too far, and I wanted to post a picture before I got too far along to get some feedback.

I realized I was making a huge mistake, I was considering the travel of the tips of the bow along a linear path my travel distance. I realized just a few minutes ago that when referring to to an inch of travel, or travel overall, they are referring to the travel of the string at nocking point. Or at least I think they do.

Now that I think about it, I'm not really sure what I need to go off of for my travel distance relative to brace height and draw length. If someone can straighten me out I would appreciate it. I just can't sort it out in my head right this minute, I don't want to pull the bow limbs too far by accident because I got my measurements mixed up.

Anyway, sorry for all my confusion, for some reason I'm just not thinking too clearly today. This is what I've gotten to so far. The first pic is the relaxed bow for reference.

   

   

Besides needing to take a little more off the left limb to get them traveling the same distance, they are almost an inch off right now, what else can you guys see?

I've been focusing more on the middle 2/3 of the limbs like you had said MacBow, staying away from the fades and the last 6in or so of the tips. And I have been rounding all my edges each time, but I appreciate the tip none the less.  

I'm at around 65# where I'm drawing right now, so still more to take off. I'm going to try and get a shorter string on it, but even with the bow stringer I made, pulling from a second set of nocks, its a bear to string. A FF string would be great right now, I've got to order some as I make my own strings. Why is that stuff so expensive, the smallest roll I can find is 1/4# and costs $45?

Anyway, I look forward to the input, you guys have helped out a lot so far. I'm getting antsy to get this thing strung and flinging arrows.    

[macbow]

This picture is upside down. It shows using two boat v rollers,to make a bow,stringer. Especially good,for heavy bows.

Understand they use these at the Black Widow shop.

[macbow]

From you photos it looks like the left limb is stronger because the right limb is bending a little more at the dip or fade.

Could even things up a little by scraping on the left,fade,a,little.

It is time to get a short,braced string on it.
To reduce weight most of the removal will still be in the middle 1/3 of the limb unless it starts,bending too much.

Have you read the posts on even limb timing tillering?
Best way to go.
Also have you made a tillering gizmo.
Look up Eric's gizmo very helpful when first starting out.

[Pyro43]

I'll Take some more off of the left side, I already did a little earlier, but I need to do more and I'll take more off by the fade too.

I just tried getting a shorter string on it, stretched too much, I'm going to make me a heavy flemish twist with one end free to adjust as I go along. All I have is dacron, if I double the size will that help keep it from stretching too much?

I have read a few on limb timing/tillering including the one by Dean, tillering the organic bow, very good, although still a little over my head. I'll do some more reading, any recommendations?

[Pyro43]

Also, it was my understanding that the tillering gizmo doesn't work on a hybrid longbow because the limbs don't bend in a nice even arc like they do with a regular D shaped longbow. Am I missing something?

[mikkekeswick]

A longbow is ideal for the gizmo but you can use one on any bow. You can still get a read on if the limbs are even. I'd personally be using one.
Yes you need to brace it now. A thicker 20 strand string will help, even B50 will make a good tillering string. Once you've made it then get it stretched taught and get a piece of thick leather , fold it over the string and then rub like nobodies business to get the string hot - this will take the stretch out.
You should certainly be blending the fades into the working limb as you are basically making an unnecessary hinge there now (in the worst possible place!) and blend the tip overlays into the limb too - this will make bracing a whole lot easier.

[macbow]

Agree no reason the B 50 would not work.
And the blending at fades and tips is a,really good point.
Just go slow in those fade areas, easiest place to make a hinge.
I use the gizmo on R/D all the time. Just take into account the areas that are not a true arc.  Especially helps compare the fade area.

Also once you get the bow braced. Hold it and site down the side of each limb from the handle to tip and compare. You will see if there is a difference in the profile.

[macbow]

As for the limb timing and tillering look up "Bowjunkie" threads
He along with RoyfromPa. Have,some,easy to understand techniques. I started using these and like the results.

[Pyro43]

So I took and tried to do what you guys suggested and got the bow down in weight quite a bit too. I can see that the left limb is still a little stronger than the right, so I'll have to take more off that one still for the next round of scraping.

I think I can see what you guys are saying about the hinging by the fades, it looks to me like the right side has a little bit of one right at the fade. I'll stay away from the fades at this point and work the center of the limbs like has been mentioned.

I got a string on to about a 3" brace height and worked the limbs down a few more inches, exercising them 30+ times per inch, I'm at 16 inches on my grid background, which is pretty close to 10 inches of overall travel. After the next round of scraping I'm going to exercise the limbs some more and then try to get a six inch brace height string on there.

What do you guys think? Any suggestions beyond what you've already said? Here's a pic showing what I've got to.

   

It is pulling 65# at this point

[Pyro43]

I got a strung to a six inch brace height, or 5 3\\4" to be exact.

   

How does it look? I can't tell why it isn't more level, the sting that is, is it my limbs or my tree relative to by background grid?

I noticed I have a little bit of limb twist on the right or upper limb. Sorry the pics didn't turn out the best, but I think you can see it bending off to the right. I'll use Roy's diagram and see if I can't get that straightened out.  

   

From the opposite limb