compressed/forged arrows

[fujimo]

does any body remember, or have used the forged/compressed wooden arrows- originally made by Sweeney out of Oregon

not talking compressed thru a compression die, these were really compressed about 3 times the density up front and twice the density at the rear of the shaft- a kind of an internal taper.

i believe they were pretty tough- and could get pretty high spines with them
 
any feedback or ideas

[LittleBen]

Wayne, Ive never used me but I have read about them. I thought they were called forge wood shafts, for some reason the name Bill Sweetland rings a bell.

I've thought many time if they could be made on a small production scale for personal use. I had considered that a 20ton press in one of those big metal arbors might be enough force to compress the wood.

IIRC they were made by cutting a board thick at one end and thinner at the other end, then compressing it to an even thicknes, thereby making one end more dense. Then square blanks were ripped from the board, and then turned into shafts.

So if you used a press, you'd need to attach two very rigid plates to squeeze the wood between.

[fujimo]

thanks Ben, yea Sweetland was the name- i think the process was quite involved with heat, and then some process again afterwards to stop the shafts from swelling again- from what i have read, they seemed like a well liked shaft- super tough/durable- heavier( good for hunting) but could also attain higher spine weights in smaller diameter shafting- i would imagine the process to be labour intensive- and thus more costly- but do seem to be a superior product- just from what i have read  

[Mad Max]

Changing the subject
I have a fred Bear video and he runs his lam's  between 2 rollers to compress the wood

[fujimo]

interesting- the process of compression at this level, is to squeeze out all the air  i guess- thus producing a denser, more resilient  product

[LittleBen]

I recall reading that the equipment used to make them needed overhaul, and it was determined that it was too expensive to repair, and hence they're not made anymore. Shame. My guess is anyone has has any left would hang onto them like they're gold.

I do wonder at the end of the day if they'd be any better than a good hardwood shaft with a full length taper. Like hard maple or something.

[Troy D. Breeding]

You can bet they are better. When I was in the shaft business I made a few compressed poplar shafts using somewhat the same method Sweetland used. I tapered the blank and heat pressed it to one thickness. After running them into shafts I managed to get a natural weight forward shaft that was atleast three times as strong as a normal poplar shaft. It held its straightness better and took way more punishment than normal poplar. If I could have figured out a way to mass produce the blanks I think they would have been way above anything offered at that time. Just too costly and time consuming to make.

[Mad Max]

I have read about rubbing a bone on wood to compress it.
look at this

  http://primitivearcher.com/articles/boning.html  

   http://probaseballinsider.com/how-to-bone-a-bat/  

cold rolled steel has a shine, verses Hot rolled steel is a blue color
cold rolled has a harder surface but a little softer inside
Hot rolled is the same softness


I think a slab of wood compressed would only go so deep    :confused:  

I would roll them threw a bead roller after they where round.
my 2 cents
Troy posted just before me. He knows

[pinky]

I remember reading about these shafts on the internet not so long ago.  Here is a link. Maybe some of these shafts are still available?
 http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com/

[Troy D. Breeding]

I made a three roller system to compress shafts. It worked great as long as the grain was really straight. However if the grain wasn't really straight it would simply crush the shaft to giblets. I checked several by cutting them into pieces to try and figure out how deep the compression went. The best I could come up with was approx. 30%.

[mikkekeswick]

I don't really see the point. Sure the finished material is denser but you have just crushed a load of the cells to the point hwere they can't spring back to their original size, like overly compressing the belly of a bow so that set shows up. Surely this disrupts the structure of the wood in a detrimental way?

[fujimo]

the way i understand it mike- is that they were expelling all the air inbetween the cells?!
they have made these arrows since the sixties i believe- and everyone says that they were waaay tougher than the std arrow of the same wood, and much higher spines out of a thinner arrow- plus the advantage of the "inner taper".
seems to have worked for yonks- i personally have never seen them or shot with them- only read about them.  

[Eric Krewson]

Here is the whole story about Forgewood shafts from Bill Sweetland himself.

 

[LittleBen]

That's a pretty detailed explanation of the process .... Sounds like it COULD be done if you had the time/money/space/desire. youd obviously never make any money doing it unless you're selling me for $200/dozen or something. Might be fun to try a verysmall run for personal use.

[razorback]

Great video presentation, well worth the time to watch it, thanks for posting Eric.