First Time Bowyer Advice

[Jomohr84]

Nice job! May I ask how many poundage and draw length?

[deadsilence]

Originally posted by Jomohr84:
Nice job! May I ask how many poundage and draw length?

Before the final sanding it was 52-53 at 28 but I haven't drawn it back since then. Letting my first coat of poly dry before I sand it. The humidity and temperature is not helping my case though.

[deadsilence]

I have another question about design and function.  For this board bow I just used the reminder of the the board to laminate for the handle.  My question is how far down can you take the handle fades.  If you will notice in my pictures I achieve 2 board thickness pretty fast in the taper but I would like to make a less blocky, more streamlined handle for my next one.  Can i taper it all the way down to the arrow shelf? Also how far down the handle can you start the sight window? Can you start it at the fade? 1/4, 1/2 inch from it? Is there a safe general rule of thumb for how thick the the handle needs to be before you can start taking material away for design aspects?

[takefive]

I taper the fades just about to the arrow pass and start angling the sight window from the end of the fades.  I don't cut a shelf in on wooden bows, though, so I really don't know if you need to leave more wood around that cut in shelf.  The narrowest I make the handle at the arrow pass is 7/8" wide by 1 3/8" thick.
Congrats on finishing your bow.  Tiller looks pretty good.  

[deadsilence]

Well once my hunting partner saw my bow, he immediately said, "Well you know you have to build another one now, right?"  I had figured as much so I told him what to look for in a board and he brought his selection to me.  This one went much faster than the last.  The bow started out with about .5 inches of natural reflex and once tillered out it was around 1.25in of deflex.  This build has raised some questions for me.  How do you minimize this in the tillering process?  Am I over stressing the bow?  I built a pully tillering tree and never pulled the bow beyond the target weight nor over the desired draw length. Did I over excercise?  

That is my first question.  My next requires some setup.  The bow had a slight hinge in the upper limb midway which required some material removal to even out and more material removal on the opposite limb to balance.  The bow is pulling around 47lbs and I was shooting for closer to 53-55.  What is the best way to raise the weight by 5 or 6 lbs.  The bow is 66ntn with a 9.5in riser, 2.25 at the fades 1/2 at the tips.  I may not do anything to it but I would like some information on how and what to do it if i decide to.

Here is the bow full draw.  Picture is rotated to compensate for me not being able to hold the bow level apparently.

 

[LittleBen]

1.25" string follow is excellent for an oak board bow. Looks and sounds like you're doing well.

Making the bow wider, longer, and/or lower draw weight (from the beginning) can reduce set. But some set is good .... It tells you the bow is not too overbuilt. I think overall you can't expect much more from a 1x3 oak board then you've already got.

Sometimes you can shorten (pike) a finished bow by a couple inches and increase the weight, but it will also cause more set. With this bow, I would not shorten it. The string is already at about 90degrees to the tips so there's really no more draw length left, and if you shorten it, the angle will get worse.

Build another if the few pounds is critical.

Maybe hickory board for the next one if you do another board bow?

Since you've got things down pretty good, maybe you wanna set your sight on a backed bow for the next one? Hickory backed hickory would be cheap especially if you have a sawmill/lumber yard where you can get straight grained hickory. Same rules apply as when choosing an oak board.
Or you could go bamboo backed Hickory, which would wrk although isn't ideal really. Bamboo backed Ipe or bamboo backed osage would be best.

Cheers and nicely done!

[deadsilence]

Originally posted by LittleBen:
1.25" string follow is excellent for an oak board bow. Looks and sounds like you're doing well.

Making the bow wider, longer, and/or lower draw weight (from the beginning) can reduce set. But some set is good .... It tells you the bow is not too overbuilt. I think overall you can't expect much more from a 1x3 oak board then you've already got.

Sometimes you can shorten (pike) a finished bow by a couple inches and increase the weight, but it will also cause more set. With this bow, I would not shorten it. The string is already at about 90degrees to the tips so there's really no more draw length left, and if you shorten it, the angle will get worse.

Build another if the few pounds is critical.

Maybe hickory board for the next one if you do another board bow?

Since you've got things down pretty good, maybe you wanna set your sight on a backed bow for the next one? Hickory backed hickory would be cheap especially if you have a sawmill/lumber yard where you can get straight grained hickory. Same rules apply as when choosing an oak board.
Or you could go bamboo backed Hickory, which would wrk although isn't ideal really. Bamboo backed Ipe or bamboo backed osage would be best.

Cheers and nicely done!

Thanks for the encouragement.  I was really surprised out how quickly this one turned out.  I thought the tiller looked really well on it.  I was thinking about sticking with the oak for the next bow and attempting to flip the tips before i moved on to a different wood types.  I had been eyeing this style by dan spier.
 http://danspier.com/archives/528
I contacted him and he said that he uses two equal laminations of hickory tapering from 1/4 in the middle to 1/8 on the ends.  He laminates them flat side to flat side with mild reflex, then laminates a fitted handle.  Seemed like it would be a good style to start with for a laminated bow.

Any advice on tip flippin would be appreciated to.

Thanks

[LittleBen]

If you're laminating the bow, you're going to need to cut the laminations from lumber stock. At that point there's very little advantage to oak because the board you buy will still need to be cut up. Just my .02

Once yu move onto stronger wood you won't look back. Also for the $10 your gonna pay to the hardware store for a 1x3x6ft oak board (about 1 bdft) you can get more material from a true lumber supplier. Hickory sells for as little as $2-3/bdft. As do many rough cut woods. Try craigslist for deals.

Anyway, if you're going to laminate the limbs, just introduce the curve to the tips during glue up. If you wanna flip the tips on a board that's not laminated, you need to either steam the wood or heat it with a heat gun (or if you're ultra thrifty and a bit crazy) you can also use the stove. P.S. Make sure you're wife/GF is not home.

[deadsilence]

Originally posted by LittleBen:
If you're laminating the bow, you're going to need to cut the laminations from lumber stock. At that point there's very little advantage to oak because the board you buy will still need to be cut up. Just my .02

Once yu move onto stronger wood you won't look back. Also for the $10 your gonna pay to the hardware store for a 1x3x6ft oak board (about 1 bdft) you can get more material from a true lumber supplier. Hickory sells for as little as $2-3/bdft. As do many rough cut woods. Try craigslist for deals.

Anyway, if you're going to laminate the limbs, just introduce the curve to the tips during glue up. If you wanna flip the tips on a board that's not laminated, you need to either steam the wood or heat it with a heat gun (or if you're ultra thrifty and a bit crazy) you can also use the stove. P.S. Make sure you're wife/GF is not home.

Sorry I wasn't clear, i was talking about experimenting with flipping the tips on an oak board board just for the experience of doing it.  Then if that was successful I would move on to the hickory laminated bow like i described.  

I am predominately a tree stand hunter here in south arkansas so I have also been looking into shorter NtN bows that would be easier to wield in a stand (also that can lay across the back seat of a full size truck and shut the door lol)  Is there a style and/or wood type that lend itself to being a little shorter?

[takefive]

If you get into wood laminated bows, a tri-lam recurve is a good design for a shorter bow, especially if you deflex it at the handle.  The two I made were 62" NTN.  Or you could make a bend through the handle bow.  You can go shorter with that design because you have more working limb w/o the handle.
Osage is the best wood, whether it's a belly lam or a stave for a self bow IMO.  It's strong, elastic, and heat bends easily and looks beautiful as well.

[monterey]

Look at Roy's tri lam build alongs.  There are several here on the bench.  His ReDe designs will get you to a shorter bow.

[LittleBen]

Jason I totally understand the short bow thing. At the same time I can say I find little difference between a short and long bow in a stand. And if you think it's hard to jam a bow into a full size truck you should see the ridiculous 2 door coupe I drive.

My point is just that a longer bow can be a real joy to shoot, and a small burden to transport/maneuver.

[deadsilence]

Does anyone have a good template or some measurements for a safe tip flipping jig?

[LittleBen]

The term would be caul, for the jig you bend the limb over. I don't have measurements or anything, but it all basically depends on what shape you want.

[takefive]

You don't need much of a caul to flip the tips.  This one is a scrap 2 X 6 a little longer than 2 feet.  I think I just guessed at the radius and free handed it.  Maybe trace a dinner plate and see how that looks?  

 

This is how the bow looks braced.  The tips are about 1 1/2" above the plane of the bow's back.  Pretty average flippage I think.

 

[deadsilence]

Found a new wood provider this weekend. He runs a tree service and has his own sawmill and kiln. He had all type of local Arkansas wood in his shop. All of it was rough sawn so it was hard to tell how the grain was but I ended up coming home with a decent piece of hickory and two mulberry boards. I know mulberry is a cousin to Osage but I haven't found a lot of posts about it. Does anyone have recommendations on dimensions for mulberry? Maybe for a 55lb bow?

[takefive]

I've only made one mulberry bow and I was really surprised at how light the wood was, esp. after reading the same "cousin to Osage" stuff.  It reminded me very much of red elm.  Maybe it was just that stave, though.  I've seen nice mulberry bows over on Primitive Archer and the guys who made them were happy with the wood.
The stave I had was only 64" long, so I made it 1 3/4" wide at the fades.  I made your basic American flat bow and it wound up at 40# , a few pounds lighter than I was trying for.
It's still unfinished.  I'll probably heat treat the belly one of these days just to see if that helps.

[deadsilence]

Originally posted by takefive:
I've only made one mulberry bow and I was really surprised at how light the wood was, esp. after reading the same "cousin to Osage" stuff.  It reminded me very much of red elm.  Maybe it was just that stave, though.  I've seen nice mulberry bows over on Primitive Archer and the guys who made them were happy with the wood.
The stave I had was only 64" long, so I made it 1 3/4" wide at the fades.  I made your basic American flat bow and it wound up at 40# , a few pounds lighter than I was trying for.
It's still unfinished.  I'll probably heat treat the belly one of these days just to see if that helps.

Were the limbs a straight taper to the tip or did you hold the fade width to a certain point?

[takefive]

I kept the fade width for half the length of the limbs.

[JamesV]

For your laminated handle: Try to find some Cherry, Persimmon or walnut. Using any two of this combination will make a nice handle.

Where are you located in Arkansas?

James