First time on forum and first time bow maker...advice needed

[Ismail]

This is my first post on this forum. Below are some pictures of a hickory bow I am making. Not too sure what the tiller should look like. If anyone has any advice or criticism, would really appreciate it. The top limb is a 1"1/2 longer than the bottom.  
This is the bow on the tree:
   

 
   
This is a picture of the handle:
 

[macbow]

Welcome .
It looksto methat just out ofthe fade on the left limb there is a slight hinge starting.
Be carefull to tiller around it.

If you have determined your top limb it would be better to have the pull rope aligned with the area where the shelf or arrow pass will be.
It will give abetter read.

[Steve B.]

Take another pic of the handle but turn the bow sideways.

[Mad Max]

Originally posted by Steve B.:
Take another pic of the handle but turn the bow sideways.

yea
A side view of the handle

[Ismail]

Ok, put pencil marks on that limb just after the fades and rasped them off thrice. Can you notice any difference? That limb is also bending noticibly more than the bottom limb. Whats to do next?
 


 

Originally posted by macbow:
Welcome .
It looksto methat just out ofthe fade on the left limb there is a slight hinge starting.
Be carefull to tiller around it.

If you have determined your top limb it would be better to have the pull rope aligned with the area where the shelf or arrow pass will be.
It will give abetter read.

[Ismail]

Mark, heres some pictures of the handle from the side and back. Let me know how to improve it next time.
 

 

 

Originally posted by Mark Daniel:
 

Originally posted by Steve B.:
Take another pic of the handle but turn the bow sideways.

yea
A side view of the handle [/b]

[Steve B.]

It looks pretty good but it would be better if the tiller pic was closer to the camera and if the camera was at the same height.
Better yet would be to knock an arrow and pull the bow by hand and watch in a mirror.  The hand pulling can change the tiller by changing the pressure points on the string and handle.

As you pull the bow watch which tip starts moving first and try to get them moving fairly evenly as well as keeping the tiller and pull weight where you want it.

Don't take off any more wood from the fade area.

Was this a stave or board or ?

[Ismail]

Originally posted by Steve B.:
It looks pretty good but it would be better if the tiller pic was closer to the camera and if the camera was at the same height.
Better yet would be to knock an arrow and pull the bow by hand and watch in a mirror.  The hand pulling can change the tiller by changing the pressure points on the string and handle.

As you pull the bow watch which tip starts moving first and try to get them moving fairly evenly as well as keeping the tiller and pull weight where you want it.

Don't take off any more wood from the fade area.

Was this a stave or board or ?

Ok will try that tomm and let you know how it turns out. Was it a good idea to make the top limb 1" 1/2 longer? It seems to complicate the tillering.  Yes, its a board bow.  Today i managed to get an ipe board with straight grain and some bamboo also. Planning on doing a laminate after this one. But first want to finish this one properly then will start that.

[macbow]

Many people do make the bottom limb shorter.
Many of us just make them the same to make things easier.

Your work on removing the slight hinge looks good.

Theremare,some posts in archives or somewhere from Bowjunkie and RoyfromPA that go into detail about improving tillering trees.

[Steve B.]

On a symmetrical bow the center of the handle is the center of the bow but the arrow doesn't slide across the center of the handle because the bow hand is there so the arrow ends up above center of the bow and string.  
Then the nock of the arrow often gets put on the string above horizontal in order to get good arrow flight.  
With split finger shooting the index finger is now above the arrow and now well above center of the string.  This affects tiller so making the upper limb longer helps compensate for that, putting the string hand more in center of the string.
So I often never use a tree or stick and tiller from the get-go by pulling.  That lower limb may be stiffer so I try to find a balance between matching the arc of the limbs to each other and watching the movement of the tips as I slowly draw to see what is causing one tip to start moving before the other and how much more it is doing so.
The braced bow might look a little funny, especially with an 1 1/2" difference in limbs, but when you draw it starts looking more symmetrical.

I do it by feel and instinct.  If you do it incorrectly you can end up with set in one limb more than the other and that will teach you that you overstrained it and so at that point you have to do something different the next time.

Hope that is not making it more confusing.  You might want to just match the arc of the limbs on the tree and call it good, for a few bows, then try the hand pulling and longer-limb thing later.

[Ismail]

Originally posted by macbow:
Many people do make the bottom limb shorter.
Many of us just make them the same to make things easier.

Your work on removing the slight hinge looks good.

Theremare,some posts in archives or somewhere from Bowjunkie and RoyfromPA that go into detail about improving tillering trees.

Macbow, I also feel your anguish when I look at my tillering tree. It really does need an upgrade.
Just hastily put it together because was so anxious to start tillering. Will definitely check those posts for a proper tree. Appreciate the advice. thanks

[Ismail]

Got 2 questions:

1. Is there any guideline for how long a bow handle should be with respect to the length of the limbs? eg. If I am making a 1m youth bow, how do I know how long the handle and fades should be?

2. Why do bowyers advocate tapering limb thickness towards the tips by 1mm or 2mm? Is it necessary?

thanks

[Steve B.]

Someone will certainly have a formula for you.  Generally you make it the size of the hand and room for the arrow.  Or you can make no handle at all or a slightly narrowed one that bends every so slightly.  The less handle you have the more potential limb that can be bending.
I never measure fades anymore but just naturally taper the limb to the handle in thickness and width at about the same points.

With selfbows you don't necessarily taper per a formula but instead adjust thickness to develop the tiller that you want.  Front view profiles of limb design dictate type of tiller and thus thickness.  Thus, width taper affects thickness taper.

[John Scifres]

Your right limb is stronger than the left.  Give it ten scrapes, exercise bow, take another pic.  Repeat until they are even.

Put the hook on your pull rope right in the center of the string.

Your handle is too skinny and slim.  Don't shape the handle until you have tillered the bow.  I make all my handles 4".  Maybe 3" on a kids bow.

Post bigger pictures. Most of us are old.

Wooden bows are tillered, not tapered.  In other words, the way the bow bends determines where you leave or remove wood.  Tapering using a caliper is  only the starting point for wooden bows.

 http://sticknstring.webs.com/tiller101.htm

[Ismail]

Originally posted by John Scifres:
Your right limb is stronger than the left.  Give it ten scrapes, exercise bow, take another pic.  Repeat until they are even.

Put the hook on your pull rope right in the center of the string.

Your handle is too skinny and slim.  Don't shape the handle until you have tillered the bow.  I make all my handles 4".  Maybe 3" on a kids bow.

Post bigger pictures. Most of us are old.

Wooden bows are tillered, not tapered.  In other words, the way the bow bends determines where you leave or remove wood.  Tapering using a caliper is  only the starting point for wooden bows.

  http://sticknstring.webs.com/tiller101.htm  

John, apologies for the picture sizes. This is the first forum I joined so getting used to it.

Will follow your advice on scraping the right limb and post some more (bigger) pictures later on.
Appreciate the advice. thanks

[fujimo]

you can make the pics  a max "640" wide.

 i did read a rough guideline formula somewhere- as i remember it:
 for flat longbows- with stiff handle section. 2x draw length + 10"
riser is approx as follows. 2" for each fade and handle is about 4 to 4.5" long- bigger hand- longer handle, smaller hand - smaller handle. arrow pass( top of "handle") is 1.25" above center.
for bend thru the handle bows- x2 drawlength + 4"- i personally love bend thru the handle board and self bows!

start putting in reflex, flipping tips and building recurves- then this really does not have any bearing. this  guideline is just to ensure that your string angle at the tips does not get past 90 degrees and start causing the bow to stack at full draw.

lastly- do a search on here for "tillering gizmo" read about it- and build one- your most valuable tool when building board bows!

where are you from- i am originally from KZN.    

[John Scifres]

Just kiddin about the pics.  I was mostly saying that for the really old guys who probably need braille anyway.

[Ismail]

Originally posted by John Scifres:
Your right limb is stronger than the left.  Give it ten scrapes, exercise bow, take another pic.  Repeat until they are even.

Put the hook on your pull rope right in the center of the string.

Your handle is too skinny and slim.  Don't shape the handle until you have tillered the bow.  I make all my handles 4".  Maybe 3" on a kids bow.

Post bigger pictures. Most of us are old.

Wooden bows are tillered, not tapered.  In other words, the way the bow bends determines where you leave or remove wood.  Tapering using a caliper is  only the starting point for wooden bows.

  http://sticknstring.webs.com/tiller101.htm  

Gave it 5 scrapes. How does it look?
 


 

[Ismail]

Originally posted by fujimo:
you can make the pics  a max "640" wide.

 i did read a rough guideline formula somewhere- as i remember it:
 for flat longbows- with stiff handle section. 2x draw length + 10"
riser is approx as follows. 2" for each fade and handle is about 4 to 4.5" long- bigger hand- longer handle, smaller hand - smaller handle. arrow pass( top of "handle") is 1.25" above center.
for bend thru the handle bows- x2 drawlength + 4"- i personally love bend thru the handle board and self bows!

start putting in reflex, flipping tips and building recurves- then this really does not have any bearing. this  guideline is just to ensure that your string angle at the tips does not get past 90 degrees and start causing the bow to stack at full draw.

lastly- do a search on here for "tillering gizmo" read about it- and build one- your most valuable tool when building board bows!

where are you from- i am originally from KZN.      

Fujimo, thanks for the guide. Going to print it out.
Checked the gizmo out, definitely need to make one. Especially if im starting the bamboo backed ipe bow next.

Also from KZN myself, not too many bowyers this side.

[fujimo]

where about- i am from Weenen!
youre right- very few bowyers over there.
check out wcdurand on the bench here- hes from the parys area i think- or potch- a few safas on the forum- not many builders though- good luck- holler if there is anything i can help you with.
 cheers
wayne