Hickory Board Bow - Newbie

[tsorenson]

Sounds like I'd better heed the prevailing wisdom!

Takefive - what a generous offer...this community is awesome! I will PM you.

[Pat B]

I use para cord for an early long string. Once I get to brace I build a string for the bow.

[tsorenson]

Alright, so I roughed out the handle tonight and now it's starting to look like something other than lumber - this is fun! I'm not sure how I feel about walnut, but I think it sure does look pretty next to the hickory.
 
 

So now I'm at the stage where I have to make up my mind - do I back this bow or not? It's my first one and I'd hate to break it...on the other hand, wood is beautiful and I'd hate to cover it up with something. So here are a couple more photos and I'd welcome any and all thoughts on whether you think I should back this thing (I understand it's difficult to say one way or the other via pictures...)
 
Here's looking from the handle to one limb.
 
And here's a look at the other limb. You can also see in this picture the spot I tried pointing out earlier in this thread where I removed too much wood.
 
Finally, here's a look at the side grain. I chose this picture because you can see a spot just below center where the grain runs off. I'm not really sure what to look for on side grain, but this seemed important. You can ignore the pencil mark - especially ignore the fact that they don't even line up.

What do y'all think? Thanks for all the help thus far!

[takefive]

I wouldn't back it, but that's just my opinion and it's your bow, not mine.  Hickory can tolerate some run off, but if you'd feel safer backing it, go ahead and back it.  That walnut handle will look nice.
I mailed the string today.  I put a long center serving on it and there's a brass nock in with it.  I just guessed going off a 68" bow of mine.  If it works out, you'll be able to shoot some arrows until you get a permanent string for it.

[Jomohr84]

I have never backed a hickory bow, and haven't had one break yet. That said, there is nothing wrong with a backing, I backed all my first bows. You want the side grain to run straight the entire length of the bow, with no run off.  What draw weight are you shooting for? The Traditional bowyer's bible has a diagram of what draw weights can be expected with certain amounts of run off. I'm just guessing without seeing the board better, but I'd bet you'd be ok without a backing.

[tsorenson]

Takefive - Thank you much! I guess I could just take the quote in your signature to heart, because that's my biggest fear with backing it (making it ugly). Now I know there's no such thing.
Jomohr - I'm shooting for 50#. If I can get =/- that by 3-5 lbs., I'd be happy.

Additional question - I understand hickory can get sluggish - at least I've heard that said about it. Will backing it cause it to be more so?

[Jomohr84]

At 50 lbs with a good tiller I wouldn't back it. Hickory is said to get sluggish if it takes on too much moisture or too much set. It is best to keep the moisture content of hickory around 7-8% I believe.

[takefive]

You're welcome, Tom.  Jonathan is right about hickory performing best at a lower MC.  Good time of the year to make one with the air being drier.

[tsorenson]

So Greg's string showed up this week - what an awesome guy! I cut nocks tonight...I see I need to practice this. Hope this doesn't ruin the bow? Looks like I cut them too deep and they aren't exactly lining up. Any tricks for this step?
 

Went to put it on the tiller stick and found out I need another place to put the tiller stick. I have it hanging from the ceiling joists and there's an air duct blocking my view of the bow. Concrete walls and I'm not sure if I want to poke holes in the wall. I'll figure out something.

[tsorenson]

Up on the tillering stick. Long story as to why it's built the way it is...let's just leave that alone.

Anyway, it's up...but I don't know what I'm looking at. Do I just need to take a lot more wood off both limbs to get them bending? In realtime I would have sworn the left side was bending more than the right, but this picture looks like the right is bending more than the left. Shadows are terrible. Can anyone decipher what's going on?
 

[tsorenson]

Here it is pulled a little further. I gotta find a different place to do this, I think. Shadows are awful. This is only being pulled 2" after the string gets taught. Am I right in my assessment that both limbs are just way too stiff, still? I'm afraid I didn't take enough wood off while roughing out the belly.
 

[tsorenson]

Alright, I was pulling 14 pounds just to get a couple inches of flex on the tips. I decided to rough out the belly some more so have peeled a ton of wood off. Will work some more on it tonight/tomorrow.

[takefive]

You're at the most intense part of making a bow right now, so be patient.  I have to constantly remind myself to slow down and not be tempted to rasp off too much at once when I'm at the stage you are now.  Make a few passes with the rasp, check how the limbs are bending on the tree and repeat, over and over.  Gets a little tedious, but it's much easier than having to deal with a hinge caused by rasping off too much at one spot.
The long string will make the outer limb area appear stronger than it really is, so be careful not to take off too much wood there.  When you get the bow braced, the tips will bend more than they do on the long string.
Here is a good post from PA about the long string:

  http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,47102.0.html  

Do you have a gizmo for tillering?  Do a search on here for "gizmo" if you don't, and make one.  Nothing has helped my tillering more than that thing.
I always add a tip overly when I narrow the tips to 3/8".  By putting the string groove in the overlay, you don't have to cut in deep side nocks.
Keep us posted and good luck!

[tsorenson]

Thanks for the link - good info! I hear what you're saying...but I just realized that I had my scale set on kg - I set it to lbs. and it's pulling 35# to go 3". I think I have a lot of wood to pull off still! Is that correct?

[macbow]

It does sound like your heavy yet.
Just be carefull to remove it inthe right places, usually near mid limb first.
The tillering gizmo will be a big help but you will need to peg the string at a low draw length to check it.

Main rule is not to draw past your desired draw weight during tillering.

[tsorenson]

I was thinking of using a variation of the long-string tillering process in the link above...I am paranoid of drawing it too heavy, so was thinking of pulling it to 45# (my target is 50#) and just keep pulling wood off from there until I'm within 5 inches of draw length. Then brace it and go from there.
Thanks for all the reminders not to pull too much off the tips - I had been going pretty heavy on them, so I'll make sure to pay attention to that going forward.

[macbow]

Might be too far before a shorter string is used.
Once the tips are moving around 6 inches of verticle travel on the tree you can try a low brace.

[tsorenson]

Macbow - I don't think I'm doing a good job of explaining myself...and to think I write for a living! I'm not planning on bracing it yet - not close! I decided to try the long-string tillering that is described in the PA link Greg posted. It seems to be going well so far. Here it is - 45# at 14"...which I think is about 6" of actual tension. My shoulders are really sore tonight from working the Surform!
 

[takefive]

Looks like you're off to a good start.  You can rasp the mid inner limbs as long as you're careful not to take off too much near the handle fades.  I like to keep the very inner limbs a little stiff until I can brace the bow, even if it is just a taut string with no actual brace height.  The taut string will give you a truer picture of how the limbs are bending than you get with the long string.  From that point on, I use the gizmo and try to keep an even bend until I can brace the bow at 3", then 4", etc.  
Steve Gardner from the PA post probably uses the long string longer than most guys would think of doing.  Usually at 20" on the long string, my bow is ready to be braced.  His method has a lot of merit IMO, though.  Tough to doubt a guy who has made 1000 more bows than I ever will.          
That B50 string will stretch when you first try to brace your bow.  You'll probably have to shorten your string in small increments until it holds.

[macbow]

If you have a cabinet card scraper it is easier and more precise compared to surform.