Hickory Cherokee Style

[RedStag5728]

I want to try a new style of bows, and learning that I am like 1/8 part cherokee I would like to replicate this style as a tribute and possibly a hunting bow if it shoots good enough.

I read in the TBBII that the cherokee typically used locust, Osage and Hickory for their 'D' tillered flatbow styles. However it only highlights the dimensions for the typical locust or Osage bow, but what about hickory?

I would like to keep it relatively narrow to better replicate this style (say 1 3/8" or so), but I know hickory likes to be at least 1 5/8" (1 3/4 - 2" even better). I know I could go longer with the 1 3/8" width by going longer, but I don't want to go super long as my draw is only 27".

So what would be a good Cherokee style hickory longbow? I was thinking maybe something like 1 5/8" width taper to 7/8" wide tips or so and leaving the bow like 68" ttt. What do you guys think?

[Pat B]

Steve Allely and Jim Hamm, in their "NATIVE AMERICAN Bows, Arrows and Quivers" show hickory Cherokee(and other Eastern Woodland) Style bows were as narrow as 1 1/8" and anywhere from 60" to over 70". There all had rectangular cross sections. If you wanted to make the limbs a little wider you can and just narrow the handle a little for comfort. I've done that with good results. These bows bent through the handle making the narrower style less stressful. I would also temper the belly to improve the compression strength of the belly. Single side nocks were also appropriate for the Eastern Woodland style bows. I have pics of locust and osage Eastern Woodland style bows but not of hickory.

[RedStag5728]

Great info Pat thanks! All of the hickory staves I have were cut from 8" diameter trees so they do have a slight crown.

I was only thinking wider due to what Tim Baker likes in a hickory stiff handle bow. So like you said with a bendy handle limbs can be narrower.

I think I'll go with 1 3/8" wide to be true to the style versus narrowing the handle, thus making it closer to like a sudbury-eastern woodland hybrid      

Looking forward to trying this new style out! Thanks again Pat!

[Pat B]

Keep the belly FLAT! ...and temper the belly. You'll love shooting it. The Eastern Woodland bendy handle bows can be quite formidable and have very little hand shock if tillered well. Tiller the mid limb areas first then bring the band back into the handle as you hit full draw. I like to feel the handle give just as I hit full draw.

[RedStag5728]

Ok, would the tillering gizmo help or should I rely on visual or taper measures? For thicknesses I was thinking maybe 5/8 through the whole bow or slight taper to 1/2 at the nocks, what do you think?

[Pat B]

I'd start the limbs at 3/4" at the handle and taper to 1/2" tips. A tiller gizmo should help a lot with a arch of a circle tiller.

[RedStag5728]

Sounds good to me, it'll be the first time I try a bendy handle hopefully it turns out great. With this snow storm hitting us now it'll be a good time to spend in the shop, just need to get the heater going.

Thanks again Pat, I'll be sure to post my progress.        

[Pat B]

Do stay away from the mid section of the bow til last. The leverage of the limbs will cause too much handle bending if you go there too soon.
  Its been snowing and sleeting here all day and should go on til at least midnight. We have at lease 8" now with more to come.

[RedStag5728]

Will do, thanks Pat. I'll start treating it like I do the stiff handle bows and not even touch the middle 8" until last. Then once I get within a few inches short of full draw at my weight (I'm shooting for 50#), then I'll work in the handle tillering by hand.

It started here at 11:30 this morning while we were on the job. Bossman called and said to pack it in and head home before it gets too bad. Good thing we did, just driving the 30 miles to get home the truck was sliding around on the road not an hour after it started.          

I haven't measured it but I know we've easily got 8 inches on the ground right now, weather man says it's going to continue until Sat night or Sunday morning, with 18-24" expected. I've started peeling the bark off and the cambium layer on the flattest crown piece of hickory I have. It only has one knot and the limb has a little snake right where the knot is. Gonna be a beautiful bow if I do my job right!      

[Pat B]

Looking forward to your progress.

[RedStag5728]

Sorry it's been so long It's been busy for me as of late, not a lot of time to spend in the shop but I do have some updates.

I've got the profile completed on the bow and am floor tillering it now. I have taken a few pictures but I am getting ready to go to work now so I'll post them when I get home this evening.

So far things are going well with the bow, I do have a kink where a knot was in the working part of the limb which may throw off the gizmo a bit, will just have to do local thickness tillering in that spot, but the rest of the limbs can be adjusted with the gizmo.

I've also started drawing and figuring out a profile for some trade points off an old circular saw blade. I am going full trad and self-gear this year. I bought me an arrow planer and have got many poplar trees in my area to make a few dozen shafts.

But now that things have kinda slowed down I'll be updating a little more regularly.

[RedStag5728]

Alrighty, photos are in...

front profile

 

Side profile

 

Tools

 


Some thickness math at 2 inch intervals to get my side profile lines with gentle curves from 3/4" down to 1/2" while following the contour of the stave's front profile.

 

Sighting down the stave, tips kinda line up well

 


These pictures were taken a few weeks ago, I have since trued up the side and front profiles so the stave is evened up and doesn't have the trapezoidal appearance from back to belly.

Just gotta tiller 'er now!    

[Roy from Pa]

Nice...

[Red Tailed Hawk]

I am following along, looks like a good start

[RedStag5728]

Ok I got her bending perfectly with the gizmo to my target draw weight (50#) at about 23". How much further should I get it to draw to this weight before working the handle into it?

I was thinking about getting it to draw to 50# at about 25", then working in the handle until it reached 27" and then rounding corners slightly and sanding and shooting in for 50# @ 28". How much would the handle bend put into the draw? Or how much SHOULD it put into, I know if I make it bend too much I will have hand-shock.

Thanks in advance.

[Pat B]

I like to feel the handle give a little when I hit full draw. You can start working into the handle area and just see how it goes. Take it slow and exercise often and see how it feels by drawing by hand with each wood removal.
 You can feel the balance of the limbs at the same time as you draw the bow.

[RedStag5728]

Ok thanks Pat, I'll give it a go when the limbs are bending at 25", I thought about it further and it just seems to me with the handle bending ever so slightly to just feel it, the handle really shouldn't add too much to the draw length.

[Pat B]

Ideally in this kind of bow the entire bow shares the stresses and exerts the forces. By getting the handle to give at full draw shows me that I'm getting all I can out of the stave without going over the hump. Too much bend in the handle will rob energy quickly. The leverage from the long limbs can get the handle area bending too much too early.

[RedStag5728]

Ok guys here where I am so far with it 50# @ 24" of draw and about 1 3/4" of resting set (probably mostly exaggerated due to the kink). I figured I'd post a recent picture of the bow as well as it's tiller so far.

Just a note, right out of the handle is a kink in the limb that has been there since I started this project so where it looks like it's hinged is where it is kinked. I checked the area with calipers and it is tapered properly with the rest of the limb, if anything it's actually a little stiff there.

Here she is unbraced on the tree.

   

Close up of the kink (filled the little hole with glue and sawdust).

   

Braced:

   

50# at 24"

   

   

How is she looking so far? According to the gizmo everything is working evenly and fine. The handle bends ever so slightly, I can barely feel it but I figure for a 28" draw or so I want to barely feel it at 24" as it may bend more at a further draw. I can always remove a little more wood there.

The only thing is worrying me is am I going to be able to get 27 or 28" out of this bow? I ask because it looks to me like the string angle on the tips are getting pretty steep. She's ~66" ttt and ~64" ntn. If not it's fine I can short draw it.

What you guys think so far?

[RedStag5728]

Here's the kink in the original picture from roughing out the stave