Author Topic: Advice needed on making only Hill style bows  (Read 774 times)

Offline WhiteWolf1750

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Advice needed on making only Hill style bows
« on: March 19, 2016, 12:15:00 PM »
I am many years a maker of frontier style knives, tomahawks (semi-retired from that)..... and builder of Southern style flintlock rifles and smoothbores.....still building guns.  

Also, for the majority of my life I have shot a bow.  I have never had a compound bow in my hand, much less shot one.  

For many years I have had a great admiration and appreciation for Howard Hill & John Schulz (got many of the DVD's and books on these men), but in the last few months I have noticed myself becoming obsessed with the Hill bow and that style of shooting.

Being a craftsman.....and already having made many self bows, I now find that I would like to make the Hill style bow, specifically Hill bows "without" fiberglass.  I notice that David Miller and others are making them.  Also, very interested in "string follow" bows.

My question is....where do you start as far as advice on proper tapers, materials as far as risers, suppliers of limb wood, bamboo, building advice/techniques, tools, ect......specifically for the Hill style.   Please point me in some good directions, my Friends.  Much appreciated!

Thank you!  Don Bruton (SC)         whitewolf1750.com     booneguns.com

Online KenH

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Re: Advice needed on making only Hill style bows
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2016, 02:48:00 PM »
I found the following discussion here, using the Search function:

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=010716#000000
Living Aboard the s/v ManCave

Offline takefive

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Re: Advice needed on making only Hill style bows
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2016, 02:07:00 AM »
Lots of suppliers on here for bamboo.  Echo Archery has bamboo slats at a good price.  Pine Hollow Longbows and 3 Rivers Archery sell bamboo and osage slats.  Tenbrook had a bamboo and ipe combo sale for a long time, don't know if he still does.  Some of them sell riser wood, too, depending on what you're looking for.  Bingham Projects also sells riser blocks.
Welcome to the forum and good luck with your bow!
It's hard to make a wooden bow which isn't beautiful, even if it's ugly.
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Offline mikkekeswick

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Re: Advice needed on making only Hill style bows
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2016, 03:50:00 AM »
Good advice above. If you've made selfbows before then tillering a hill bow is no different to any other.
A wood only bow will need around a 0.010 per running inch taper at rough out.
Ipe, osage, greenheart etc as a belly and hickory or bamboo backing.
Nothing special about these bows compared to any other. Basically they are like an elb but with a stiff handle.

Offline Wolftrail

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Re: Advice needed on making only Hill style bows
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2016, 04:11:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mikkekeswick:
A wood only bow will need around a 0.010 per running inch taper at rough out.
 
I have done hundreds of hours of research about building bows online for about 4 years. That one line mikke is the first time I have read it.  It should be a sticky.  
   :shaka:

Offline Bowlim

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Re: Advice needed on making only Hill style bows
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2016, 04:00:00 AM »
There is a formula for Hill bows in terms of the riser length, 14 inches;, the taper in plan and profile (that I will have to look up); and their overall length (match the last number of DL to OAL, so 28" = 68".  It's true they are "just bows", but they were also made just so.

They aren't conventional backed bamboo bows as in say the Torges book or video (though you can use those techniques and the basic layout to make a Hill type bow of that type, or an ILF carbon syntactic foam one, if you wanted to).

The Hill bamboos were made out of relatively large culms of the "special bamboo" he sourced.  The pith was sanded out, and the backing had the nodes intact, but subsequent layers were ground in a C cross section, to make the greatest use of the power fibers in the bamboo, and allow the parts to nest together.  

I don't actually think this is the best method to make a Hill style bamboo bow, It isn't the method that those cultures that made the best bamboo bows used.  Preserving the most power fiber is a bit like making an all fiberglass bow with no lightweight core.

There is a lot more to all this, the main issue being once you have arrived at the basics, where do you go from there.  It depends on your theory about Hill bows.  What were they really designed to do.  Or alternatively where do you want to take them, like say Adcock's riff on an ACS Hill bow.  It's up to you how you get there and what you have when you arrive.  I sense in the OP's opening post an emotional connection, but one needs to translate that into something one can build.

Offline WhiteWolf1750

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Re: Advice needed on making only Hill style bows
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2016, 08:41:00 AM »
Thank you, my friends!  I appreciate your input and help.  I have really become obsessed with the Hill style bow and all that goes with it so you are feeding a hungry wolf with your comments.

Offline Bowlim

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Re: Advice needed on making only Hill style bows
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2016, 10:45:00 PM »
So the hill bow may use a riser of 12 inches, with the depth of grip being 2.125  It is placed middle of the bow - 2 inches down the lower limb.  The limbs working section at 66% of length are 75% width, and depth.  At the end of the working limb they are 50%.

They were working with 5" culms and even the bamboo they had was sometimes flattened.  The simplest option might be to get some tonkin for the back, and split it out and assemble it as flat as possible, then do one's best with wider bow culms to simply build up the lams.  he used very thin glass or gasket material.  His glass was .020, or .030 backing.  He full tillered the bows and reduced the nodes a little bit, then used truck tire inner tubes to wrap them up.  So the thin glass would allow the nodes to print through. Simply bent in the backset with his knee at that point, around 3/4" though sometimes as much as 2".  This whole part of the process might go better with the bamboo wedge technique.

He shot for 35 pounds with the wood bow, and then added the amount of glass he needed to bring the weight up from that point.


Offline WhiteWolf1750

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Re: Advice needed on making only Hill style bows
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2016, 09:28:00 AM »
Great info, Bowlim!  That really made it make sense.

Thanks!!

Offline K.S.TRAPPER

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Re: Advice needed on making only Hill style bows
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2016, 01:51:00 PM »
Just go for it!    :bigsmyl:    :archer2:    

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tracy
You really haven't hunted the old fashion way until you've done it from one of these Indian houses.(The Tipi) "Glenn ST. Charles"

Offline WhiteWolf1750

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Re: Advice needed on making only Hill style bows
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2016, 02:38:00 PM »
Wow....you're making me jealous!!  Awesome work!

Are these "naturals" (no glass)?  Kinda hard to tell, but it looks like it.

Question - Bingham told me they don't have anything (lams) for natural builders.  All their stuff is for fiberglass.  I am wondering how you build an all-bamboo "natural".  Do you process and temper you onw bamboo lams, or are they available somewhere?

Offline K.S.TRAPPER

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Re: Advice needed on making only Hill style bows
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2016, 08:41:00 PM »
Yes, those are all bamboo backed naturals.

 

 

 

Tracy
You really haven't hunted the old fashion way until you've done it from one of these Indian houses.(The Tipi) "Glenn ST. Charles"

Offline WhiteWolf1750

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Re: Advice needed on making only Hill style bows
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2016, 09:56:00 PM »
Beautiful!  You're doing what I want to do with the bows.  How about making a dvd or write a how-to book.  I'll be your first customer!

Offline LittleBen

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Re: Advice needed on making only Hill style bows
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2016, 10:10:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wolftrail:
 
Quote
Originally posted by mikkekeswick:
A wood only bow will need around a 0.010 per running inch taper at rough out.
 
I have done hundreds of hours of research about building bows online for about 4 years. That one line mikke is the first time I have read it.  It should be a sticky.  
    :shaka:  [/b]
Mike knows his stuff. The only thing I would add is that the thicker the limb, the more taper you will need. The more narrow the limb, the more taper you will need, generally.

I use this approach ... Approximately .0015" of taper for every .100" of limb thickness. So hill bows tend to be more narrow and deep, so mike is right on with .010" at rough out.

If you were to build a kids hill bow that only had a 1/4" thick limb, it would need a lot less taper ... only around .004 or so taper.

Online Pat B

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Re: Advice needed on making only Hill style bows
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2016, 09:57:00 AM »
Hey Don Bruton, it's Pat Brennan, your friend just up the mountain.
 Sorry I couldn't help your daughter a few weeks ago but I just didn't have a bow for her. I told her I could make her one but she didn't have time and I wasn't sure when I could get to it.
 Hope all is well with you and Joy.
  Lots of knowledgeable, generous forks here to help you out.
 Hope to see you guys soon.

  Pat
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!
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Offline WhiteWolf1750

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Re: Advice needed on making only Hill style bows
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2016, 10:30:00 PM »
Hey Pat, - I've been thinking about you a lot for quite a while!  It's good to hear from you.  I should have already got in touch.
As you can see here I have the Hill bug really bad.  He's always been a hero but here lately something has come over me that won't let go.  Can't figure it out.
Got 2 Hill bows in this week..one for Joy and the other for myself, but I want to try my hand a building a few "naturals" in the Hill style.  The guys in this thread have been giving some advice and showing me their stuff and all I can say is "WOW".
Hope you are doing well and would love to see you soon and talk bows or whatever!

Online Pat B

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Re: Advice needed on making only Hill style bows
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2016, 11:19:00 PM »
Don, I'm having my primitive skills weekend July 29, 30 and 31. You and Joy come join us for a day or the weekend. I carry the knife you made me every time I hunt and even this past weekend at a friends farm in McCormack Co, SC.
 I have no doubt that you can make a beautiful Hill style bow and especially with the help of these guys.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!
TGMM Family of the Bow

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