D/R Riser Design

[Dazzad]

G'day all,
I've recently noticed an alternative way of laying out the glass, lams and riser for D/R longbows.

Instead of the belly glass and laminations of each limb riding up their respective riser ramps to a stop at the handgrip section, certain bowyers (some Tolke models from Montana Bows are notable examples) feature a riser that is noticably flatter along it's belly contour.

The result is that the belly laminations and glass run along the less ramp-y belly contour in one uninterupted piece, from limbtip to limbtip. Separate timber and/or micarta sections are also glued to the outside of the belly glass to allow for the shaping of a locator-style grip.

My question to you guys is - has anyone built their risers in this way? how do you find it?

To my enthusiastic but relatively inexperienced  eye, all I see is upside - far gentler fades that should be easier to clamp for glueing, one-piece belly lams and glass - fewer parts to fiddle with and keep in place for glueing. It seems that the glass running uninterrupted thru the riser is bolstering the strength of the riser too.....

Commonsense suggests to me that there must also be potential pitfalls - I guess the glueing of the supplementary riser parts to the belly glass is extra work....but that's enough out of me - please guys I'd appreciate any input and experiences you could inform me with!!

Thanks,
Darren

[kennym]

Like this?

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=014229#000010

It works fine, not the old style look, but then D/Rs don't look like English longbows either anyway...  :D

[Bvas]

I have done two bows in this fashion. It does make the initial glue up a little easier as you can dowel all the lams at a single location in the center of the riser.
The first bow I added the extra riser piece in a separate glue up. On the second bow I glued it all in one step. I preferred the two step glue up. Takes a little more time, but you have more control and fewer pieces to keep lined up.

[Bvas]

 

[Dazzad]

Thanks Gentlemen!

[Yourpaldan]

Nice!  Reminds me of Centaur Archery longbow

[Jerry Gille]

I build a mild d/r design where I run the belly lam and glass over the riser.  I splice the belly lam together just like the back lams and lay it all right on top of the riser.  My bows are a great northern critter gitter copy so the riser isn't big to begin with.  My entire riser depth is only 1 1/4" before adding the lams and glass.  I like a straight handle so I don't need much room for any dish or contour to the handle.  I personally think glue up is easier this way as the belly lam and glass isn't slipping down the dips.  It does add strength which is important with my design since there isn't much material in the handle to begin with.  I would think it would be tricky with a large riser though. 

[Crooked Stic]

[Holm-Made]

I think it is the strongest way to build a bow.   Two pieces of fiberglass running from tip to tip.   It is all tied together.

[turmoiler]

Nice bows,
 I have been thinking about doing something with this design but I have a doubt about the riser. When you make the riser do you make the belly side totally flat and bend the fades when you put the riser on the form or you have to make curved fades from the beginning?

[Tim Finley]

I don't recommend making a bow with the handle glued to the belly outside the glass . I have seen a number of bows built like that and the fades of the handle started to lift off the belly glass . To much compression for something that stiff.

[Crooked Stic]

That is why when you shape the grip you go thru the glass at the throat to relieve the pressure.

[skeaterbait]

That is why when you shape the grip you go thru the glass at the throat to relieve the pressure.

So in doing that it acts basically the same as a tip overlay????

[Forwardhandle]

Crooked Stic  that black riser is awesome what wood did you use Ebony ?

[Hill Hunter]

I keep both glass lams 1 piece and parallels. join everything else under top and bottom riser pieces.

[Shredd]

I don't recommend making a bow with the handle glued to the belly outside the glass . I have seen a number of bows built like that and the fades of the handle started to lift off the belly glass . To much compression for something that stiff.

  When I first saw that style riser I thought it was cool looking and I made one like it...  I still have the bow and it is not being used (like a bunch of bows that I have and need to be sold) and it is still together...  But my gut feeling is that the standard riser lay-up where the glass is on the outside and up the ramps is over-all a better design... I am not sure about the compression being the main issue for failure but it is definitely to be considered...   Wood moves from heat and moisture and is softer and more unstable than ea40 and fiberglass and the dissimilar properties between wood and ea40  could weaken the bond especially it being more exposed and taking the forces for strength on the outside of the riser vs on the inside... ea40 is not moving where wood is softer and does move...  I think that is your main problem with of course the added force of the strains (possibly compression)    and vibrations on the riser which finally pop it loose...  IMO...  Fiberglass is very stable, a lot more stable than wood... And is closer in properties to ea40 than wood probably is...  So to me it only makes sense to wrap the riser in glass, sealing up the wood from the elements and ending the glass in the most stable part of the wood on the riser which is the thickest part of the riser...  Plus its how nature works...  If nature wants to make something strong it puts the stiffest strongest material on the outside shell and the weaker fluffier stuff on the inside...  I am sure you can get away with gluing wood on the outside of glass but I would be wary of it...  This is just my opinion...

[Hill Hunter]

same design is used by centaur and big jim, I have never had a problem with this design over the last 5 years. unless you have a working handle, there should be no compression in a static riser.

[Hill Hunter]

[arachnid]

That is why when you shape the grip you go thru the glass at the throat to relieve the pressure.

Can you explain a bit about that?
I always thought it's a more durable design then the classic "ramp" riser.

[Crooked Stic]

Yellowwood that is black diamondwood from Rosewood. This piece is very brittle.