ILF Craze—What’s next?

[John Nail]

Good! Maybe the thing will become a craze, and I can buy off all these old, junk (beautiful), recurves and longbows cheap.

[Labs4me]

What am I missing? How is this any different than having three sets of limbs in various weights for my Black Widow MAII? Isn't "ILF" just another attempt to reinvent or at least rename the wheel- i.e., take-down.

Big deal. ILF permits the interchangeability of limbs on a bow. Unless I'm missing something, so what.    :confused:

[SteveB]

Labs - the difference being I cannot try your widow limbs on my Fedora or Morrison risers or vice versa - just gives you more options.

Steve

[Lenny Stankowitz]

Labs4me:

"What am I missing? How is this any different than having three sets of limbs in various weights for my Black Widow MAII? Isn't "ILF" just another attempt to reinvent or at least rename the wheel- i.e., take-down."

Pretty simple really.  Your three sets of limbs will only fit on your BW.  If you had those three sets of limbs in ILF, they would actually be adjustable (on an ILF riser) to probably 15 or 20 different weights, tiller adjustment would be virtually unlimited, they would fit on any one of a hundred + different risers (costing anywhere from 75.00 to 1,000.00 new), limbs are readily available for immediate shipment in every price range and weight range within reason, in both recurve and longbow configuration.  Not to mention that all the serious R&D money is going into competition limbs and we are starting to see that spill over into the hunting limb market.

I'm only guessing here but BW is a pretty progressive company.  If they are not already messing with the ILF system, I'm sure they're already thinking about it, as are many, many others.

What about the guy that really loves Morrison's risers but likes BW limbs?  Well, if and when BW starts producing an ILF limb, the question is answered.  

You are probably right, it's not a big deal...it's HUGE.

Lenny

Lenny,

I agree, this "ILF Craze" certainly  represents some huge changes.  Our options appear to be endless. An excellent post BTW.

Jhoneil,

You're correct.  The Dalaa was several months, perhaps even a year, prior to the Titan.  As a matter of fact I ordered a Dalaa in the first run of 12 that Mr. Soza and 3Rivers offered.  I doubt I'll ever turn loose of that one.

Thanks everyone (again) for your thoughts.

Jim

[c ott]

Labs- Aside from the other things just mentioned, the biggest thing you may be missing if you haven't ever shot a pair of higher end ILF limbs is HOW they shoot. They are truly impressive.

[Pinelander]

Originally posted by c ott:
.... the biggest thing you may be missing if you haven't ever shot a pair of higher end ILF limbs is HOW they shoot. They are truly impressive.

In what way? How does a set of "higher-end" ILF limbs provide an advantage over that of other bows/limbs in regard to bowhunting scenarios? Seems to me it's more about convenience for those that like to have multiple sets of limbs and multiple risers to use them on.

[Rob DiStefano]

Cut to the chase ...

ILF (International Limb Fitting) limbs and risers have been around for many decades.  

The prime advantage is uniformity of fit to any ILF designed riser, since the butt ends are created to a very specific set of dimensions.  

Any ILF limb set will fit any ILF bow riser.  

Other than that they're just TD bow limbs like any other TD limb set.  Carbon, ceramic, syntactic foam - these kinda limb cores and laminates can be made for any type of limb design - ILF, proprietary, custom, and one piece.  

Are ILF style limbs a good thing for trad bowhunters?  Sure, why not?  Makes for easy limb swaps.   :D

[DesertDude]

ILF limbs are the best performing limbs. Fact! Not becauce they are ILF limbs. Because they are the same limbs used on the Olympic style bows. So if the limbs on the bow your shooting are not the same, they are not the "Best". Some people want the best that $$ can buy. Some people are happy getting there in a Ford and some in a BMW, in the end your still getting there.....

[George D. Stout]

Open the doors and let the sunshine in boys.  This ain't new!  It's just new to you 8^).
 

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by DesertDude:
ILF limbs are the best performing limbs. Fact! Not becauce they are ILF limbs. Because they are the same limbs used on the Olympic style bows. So if the limbs on the bow your shooting are not the same, they are not the "Best". Some people want the best that $$ can buy. Some people are happy getting there in a Ford and some in a BMW, in the end your still getting there.....

Get it straight - ILF limbs have NOTHING to do with limb or bow performance.  

"ILF" is a label for a specific style of limb attachment that meets a specific international standard.  ILF has been around since the late 60's - it's nothing new to trad TARGET bows, but it is "new" to trad HUNTING bows.

Limb mechanics design, composition and build can be precisely the same for a set of ILF limbs or for a one piece hunting trad bow.

Using ILF for trad hunting bows only means more versatility - nothing more or less.

.

[JC]

Originally posted by DesertDude:
ILF limbs are the best performing limbs. Fact! Not becauce they are ILF limbs. Because they are the same limbs used on the Olympic style bows. So if the limbs on the bow your shooting are not the same, they are not the "Best". Some people want the best that $$ can buy. Some people are happy getting there in a Ford and some in a BMW, in the end your still getting there.....

Uhhhh, nope. Both Bob Morrison (and some others)and a few guys testing ACS/CX bows have beaten the performance of the top end of ILF limbs.

One of the main advantages of ILF limbs, to those who know them and love them, is the "perceived smoothness" of their draw and the ability to shoot very low gr/# arrow weight and not blow up the bow.

[Chris Wilson]

Companies like Hoyt and Win&Win have put tons of money and countless hours of research and development into their olympic competition limbs.  They don't just look to produce raw speed, but overall, well balanced performance.  The result are limbs that have an excellent combination of durability, smoothness, speed and stability.  Couple these limbs with the ease of interchangability an ILF attachement system provides and one has a excellent combination for target archers and hunters alike.

 

Good! Maybe the thing will become a craze, and I can buy off all these old, junk (beautiful), recurves and longbows cheap.

Yep John, I'm buying my time as well.
  :D

[WildmanSC]

JC,

I will have the opportunity in a couple of months to see if maybe there's a trad hunting bow specific ILF recurve limb that will outperform, or at least equal, the ACS CX and Morrison limbs.  I have to qualify that by saying I have yet to shoot the Morrison foam cored ILF limbs.

I will be shooting this fall a 19" Firefly riser with Tradtech Extreme BF recurve limbs, longs, 50#.  I'll have an adjustable range of around 47-51# on the Firefly riser.  I'm looking forward to the opportunity to shoot the new bow.

Bill

[Dick in Seattle]

Gosh... this got a little testy overnight  :^)    Not in any sense of arguing, but just as an observation, here is how this development is benefitting one archer...

Due to my shoulder problem, I have had to drop from roughtly 55 lbs down to roughly 40.   OK... I traded/sold/bought some bows to move heavies out in favor of lights and that got me some light bows.   However, dropping that much weight cost me a lot of range... and to be honest, I'm not a good enough shot that I had much to spare!    Part of the problem was that I tend to longbows and they tend to heavier arrows.

I decided after seeing a friend shoot a Titan to try one... for me, one of the advantages is that the limbs are happy as clams with very light arrows... my range moved back out to where I used to shoot, and even further.  (Don't hunt so arrow weight isn't a consideration in that respect.)  The wide recurve limbs are definitely an easier draw, pound for pound, than my longbows... which is easier on my shoulder.   Now, as it happens, as happy as I am currently with my Titan, it came in at 42#, and that is still proving a little heavy if I overdo on a particular day.   Not a big problem... I don't have to get a new bow... I just need to pick up a set of lighter weight Olympic target limbs and stick them in there.   To someone with declining physical condition, who may have to move down a couple of times over the next few years, that's a big deal.

Do these new developments replace the wonderful feeling and look of a fine custom bow?  Of course not... don't be silly.  No one is saying they do.   But, they do have their benefits.

As one side benefit I haven't seen mentioned, think how much easier it is to confuse the resident bow police at home.   Once you have a couple of sets of limbs and a couple of risers and start switching them around, new limbs, even a new riser, can appear in the mix and remain pretty much under the radar!

Dick

[Rob DiStefano]

Dick, yer still confusing a limb attachment system with limb performance - two distinctly different concepts.  Separate the two and ILF gives you a universal standard for limb attachment and the possibility of adjusting limb tiller to accommodate a range of draw weights per draw length, and the ability to adjust to different shooting styles (i.e. - split and 3 under).

[Terry Green]

I didn't know there was a 'craze'.  1st I've heard of it.

Oh, I've got hybrid longbows that are faster than some ILFs.

[Dick in Seattle]

not really, Rob... I know the difference.   In my particular case, the switch was from longbows, with their deeper, narrrower limbs, to an ILF system, at which point, coindidentally, I also made the switch to recurve limbs on it.   I had not shot a recurve before... only longbows.    I did/do find the wider, thinner in cross section recurve limbs seem to be easier to pull, weight for weight, somehow...  I know that if that's true, and it may just be my own personal impression, it would be due to the limb cross section, not the attachment system.  I had noticed something similar last year when i got a Checkmate Longhorn... a rather radical RD longbow that is really a lot more like a recurve in having wide thin cross section limbs.   It, too, seemed a smoother draw than my slim straight longbows of the same weight...  But you are correct... the limbs are just limbs and the ILF attachment system simply a means of providing flexibility.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by Terry Green:

Oh, I've got hybrid longbows that are faster than some ILFs.

Absolutely. The fastest trad bow I've ever owned is a Thunderstick MOAB longbow, and in terms of stickbows, it doesn't get much simpler than that.

The thing I really like about ILF compatible hunting risers is that if I want another set of limbs, they're just a click away. I can choose from dozens of different suppliers and several different manufacturers, for as much or little as I want to spend. No more $500+ and a year's wait for a set of limbs. No more being married to one bowyer's work.

To me it's not about performance, per se, it's about convenience. Yes, I'm sure high end limbs like the Winex ones on my DAS offer some performance advantages over other limbs (just try to twist them), but at the distances I shoot animals it's a moot point.

[Dick in Seattle]

Here's a downside of all this ILF flexibility...at least for those of us who are math impaired.     It ain't as simple as we make it sound.    You have to be able to do some math.   The limb weights change with the length of the risers you put them on.   man, did that confuse me!    You have risers varying from 16" to 25", and a specific set of limbs get heavier in pull the longer the riser they're put on.    Then, you have short, medium and long limbs, and sometimes the catalog will tell you that this set of limbs makes "X" length bow on a "Y" length riser, but that's usually Olympic 23 and 25" risers.  You have to make adjustments for the newer short risers, both for length and pull.  Also, now, you can get longbow limb variations for ILF.   You can sort it all out, but make sure you do before you order limbs for a specific riser, or you may be in for a surprise...  It took me awhile to figure out that if I want a set of 35# limbs for my 17" riser, and I'm shopping in the Olympic limbs part of the catalog, or on the used lists, I need to look for limbs of about 27# when rated on a 25" riser.  LIke I said, confusing, but not really any worse than trying to understand spine....