ILF Craze—What’s next?

[vermonster13]

The limbs get heavier the shorter the riser Dick.

[DesertDude]

Hey Rob! take it easy, no need to yell. Remembner the respect thing......I fully understand that the ILF is a fitting system....Question then, if the other guys are making better limbs by design. Why aren't they used by olympic shooters? The fastest bow doesn't mean the best "Performing"

[James Wrenn]

The conveniance and having adjustability is the biggest advantage to the ILF type system.None or little wait for limbs and a backup set can be ready to go in about a minuite. :)While ILF limbs are not the fastest they are on average better performers than most others.Sure my fastest bows are longbows as well but overall from the $150 limbs to the most costly they all perform well and all will not have warrenty issues if you don't want to shoot heavy arrows all the time.Either way you look at it having choices is a good thing for us and the sport in general.Ilf risers and limbs are just that mant more choices we all look at. jmo

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by DesertDude:
Hey Rob! take it easy, no need to yell. Remembner the respect thing......I fully understand that the ILF is a fitting system....Question then, if the other guys are making better limbs by design. Why aren't they used by olympic shooters? The fastest bow doesn't mean the best "Performing"

Calm down, Dude, no one's yelling or this thread would be locked or removed.

If you understand what the ILF system is all about then there is no need to talk about limb design or performance since those aspects have nothing to do with how limbs are either attached (TD) or built into (1 piece) a riser.

Some of you folks aren't that knowledgeable about the origins of the Olympic recurve TD bows and limb systems - these type of trad bows were designed to have a compromise between stability and speed, with a larger emphasis on stability (hence, much longer limb lengths).  

Over the years, the introduction of new limb materials increased the performance and consistency of Olympic ILF limbs - that started with biased limb cores, carbon fiber, syntactic foam and ceramic cores - all of which matriculated over to wheel bow limbs.  

Very little of this technology moved over to trad hunting bows because there was simply no demand and these esoteric limb materials were quite expensive.

All that is changing.

[DesertDude]

Very Calm here.......Have a great day.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Dick in Seattle:
Gosh... this got a little testy overnight  :^)    Not in any sense of arguing, but just as an observation, here is how this development is benefitting one archer...

There is no argument to be had, there is only fact.  I'm observing too many statements in this thread that correlate the ILF system to limb performance - this is not true.

The ILF is a limb attachment system and has NOTHING to do with limb or bow performance from that attachment point of view.

There are horribly slow glass and maple cored ILF limbs to be had, just as there are some really fast state-of-the-art carbon/foam/ceramic ILF limbs offered.

It's only fairly recently that ILF style limbs are finally being recognized and used by bowyers building trad bowhunting bows.

The ILF system offers a universal limb attachment - this means you don't need to send yer riser back to yer bowyer when you want a new set of limbs.  In fact, you can use some other bowyer's ILF limb set.  Typically, ILF allows for a range of draw weight to be dialed in, as well as tweaking the limb tiller.

When all is said and done, ILF is not a brandy new gotta-have panacea for trad bowhunting - it's just a another option that might well be your cup of tea - and having options is usually a good thing.

[WildmanSC]

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:

Originally posted by Dick in Seattle:
[qb] It's only fairly recently that ILF style limbs are finally being recognized and used by bowyers building trad bowhunting bows.

The ILF system offers a universal limb attachment - this means you don't need to send yer riser back to yer bowyer when you want a new set of limbs.  In fact, you can use some other bowyer's ILF limb set.  Typically, ILF allows for a range of draw weight to be dialed in, as well as tweaking the limb tiller.[/b]

Rob,

I think these two paragraphs clearly states what Jim's original post was addressing.  There's now quite a few choices of risers available to the trad hunter, if he/she so chooses, which can be used to couple a broad spectrum of ILF limbs and yield a shorter than the typical Olympic/Fita bow and an increased poundage over what the typical Olypic/Fita bow would draw.

The result is an increased performance over the longer, lighter draw weight Olympic/Fita bows.  And now with some of the Trad bowyers, e.g., Morrison, the folks across the pond in Scotland, and others building ILF limbs and risers specifically for the trad hunter, in addition to a variety of aluminum ILF hunting risers that have been available, the horizons have been broadened and performance has been enhanced.  

While it is true that the increased performance is not due to the ILF connection, the connection does enable the top of the line ILF limbs to be used interchangeably on the hunter specific ILF risers.  And then when you add the new limbs being offered by a variety of bowyers, it is truly an "ILF Craze."  The craze is a phenomenon that is blazing hot in some circles more so than others.

Bill

[Rob DiStefano]

Bill, I think yer quote editing got a bit messed up.  :D

Yep, Jim's post that started this thread was about how the ILF allows for versatility.  This is an overall good thing, a good option for some bowhunters.  That the ILF is now a "craze", well, I dunno about that.  

Just don't equate the ILF as being better than non-ILF limbs, or that any ILF limbset will get you an instant performance boost.

[Lenny Stankowitz]

I think we might be splitting hairs here a little bit.

True, all ILF limbs are not the best performers but most of the best performers were indeed designed with the ILF system in mind.  (remember, "best performing" does not only mean speed)

No large manufacturer is going to put a lot of R&D money into a limb that can only be used on one riser.  It's a simple matter of cost vs return.  I don't think anyone implied that all ILF limbs were better than all proprietary limbs, but make no mistake, the best "overall performance" is coming from limbs that are designed around that system.

Lastly, if Morrison, BW, Adcock, Quinn or any other bowyer was building limbs that outperformed competition ILF offerings, people would literally be beating a path to their door.    

Lenny

[DesertDude]

Rob & JC,

I didn't type what I was trying to say.  Most of the Top Performing limbs, are offered with the ILF system. Exception is the A&H limbs. This is more what I was trying to say. I hope this makes better sence.

[Lenny Stankowitz]

Sorry Bill, I think you and I were posting at the same time.

Lenny

[Terry Green]

Hmmmmm how does a fitting system make a bow limb perform more???

That's like saying my morrison is faster with antler bolts instead of benzles.

The limb is the limb, and the conection to the riser is just that.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Terry Green:
Hmmmmm how does a fitting system make a bow limb perform more???

That's like saying my morrison is faster with antler bolts instead of benzles.

The limb is the limb, and the conection to the riser is just that.

Oh Yeah??? Well MY custom ILF limbs have TITANIUM connectors, so MY bow is just gonna be faster and better than your old bow with plain old ANTLER topped bolts. HAH!   :D

[WildmanSC]

Tarzzz,

I don't think anybody would say that a fitting system would make a bow perform more or better.  But, I do think the ILF fitting system now makes some great performing limbs available to the trad hunter in ways we would have never envisioned 5 years ago, or so.  Perhaps there were folk then that took a 23" ILF riser, put short or extra short ILF limbs on it, camo painted the limbs and riser and used it for a hunting bow.  But today you can buy an ILF riser and limbs of your choice from Morrison Archery in a variety of lengths and draw weights.  And there's a broad spectrum of choices with a variety of sources of risers and limbs.  With 17 to 19", and maybe even 21", risers, it brings recurve lengths with ILF limbs down to the typical 58" to 64" length seen with standard design T/D wood risered bows.

Bill

[Terry Green]

OK Rob....I'll just cut the limbs off my MOAB and re attach them with POLISHED Veranium and then it will embaress your mere titanium conection bow.                  

[Terry Green]

Originally posted by WildmanSC:
Tarzzz,

I don't think anybody would say that a fitting system would make a bow perform more or better.  Bill

I'm pretty sure its been said numerous times here....and why Rob keeps trying to clear it up.

[Lenny Stankowitz]

"I'm pretty sure its been said numerous times here."

No, thats not what's being said here, at least not by me.  As a matter of fact, I don't see where anyone has said that a connection system makes a limb a better performer.

This is what I said:

"True, all ILF limbs are not the best performers but most of the best performers were indeed designed with the ILF system in mind. (remember, "best performing" does not only mean speed)"

There is a big difference there.

Lenny

[DesertDude]

LOL, I don't even own a bow with ILF system. I have a MOAB and a Tomahawk.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by DesertDude:
I have a MOAB ...

Then you 'n' me are both in good company.  

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Terry Green:
OK Rob....I'll just cut the limbs off my MOAB and re attach them with POLISHED Veranium and then it will embaress your mere titanium conection bow.                            

OK, Mr. Green - you have raised the stakes and I'm now I'm gonna get me a set of SOLID BERYLLIUM limb connectors.  Hah, BEAT THAT!!!  :D