Tillering Sequence (wood bows)

[Wolftrail]

When you tiller a bow where do you normally end.  ? Say its 60% done.  Do you work the outer tips last , mid limb or fades.  Working the tips for me is touch and go.
Having said that if the tips looks stiff do  you go there or else where..  

[Pat B]

I start at mid limb and once bending well early, I work out towards the limb tips leaving the last 4" to 6" stiff then bring the bend back towards and into the fades. Most of the stresses are at the fades with the leverage of the limbs.

[Roy from Pa]

X's 2...

[John Malone]

x3, I'm learning from these two guys, when I started doing it Pats way my set went down tremendously and I started hitting much closer to my target weight.

[mikkekeswick]

Perfect tiller from the start and then maintain it to full draw and weight.
No point in chasing yourself with a bit here now then inner limbs etc
The aim with a wooden bow is to have even strain along the whole of both limbs and both limbs balanced relative one to the other.
Leaving one area stiff to work on later is simply overstraining the less stiff areas. Once wood has been overstrained (set) it can never return as fast as if it hadn't been.

[Forwardhandle]

I like what was said above I have found in the last couple of bows spending most of my time in the floor tiller stage and getting the tapers butter smooth pays off in spades with little time needed on the tree after, mostly just  evening up one limb or the other  and minimal set !

[fujimo]

i agree with Roy  and Pat, both build phenomenal bows, pats bows are amazing works of art, never seen any with pronounced set, and folk who shoot them really seem to like them.
I actually have one of roys bows- that bow is incredible. silky smooth to shoot,sending a hunting weight arrow down range at 174fps- incredible for a wooden bow!
I like it so much, i have another one on its way!!

i am pretty sure they are not chasing the tillering around the limb, i would imagine their changes in areas of focus are incredibly subtle, maybe its simply adding a regimen to an otherwise artistic feel.

[Pat B]

Every wood bow is different, even from sister staves or piggybacks.There are basic steps to take while building wood bows but you have to be able to deviate when necessary or things just don't work out.

[Wolftrail]

So here it is.  The fades are getting over stressed slightly, the mid limbs are working ok,  having said that I want to reduce the stress on the fades.  Should I reduce material on the outer 6 or so inches on the tips.?  As they do appear a little stiff.

Seems like most of the bows I build are over stressed near the fade and this is where they start lifting a splinter.

[fujimo]

i  have done the same thing before- and i think thats what Pat and Roy were saying, leave the fades slightly stiffer- to protect them, but not so stiff that they are hinging other areas- further from the fade- the more leverage you put on them.
 but the amt is so small that its almost negligible..
 another thing i learnt the hard way- was having fades long enough- many folk who start building wooden bows( and i know its  not you- as this aint yer first rodeo      )
 but many folk seem to cut in deep shelves and make short steep fades.
make the fades long and smooth, and skip the cut in shelves, in the beginning at least.

[John Malone]

Wolftrail, this may or may not be good advice but this is what I came up with for that and it seems to work. If the inner limbs are starting to get stressed I start mid limb or so and make a pencil mark every inch and stop 6-8 inches from the tip. Then starting at the mark closest to the tip I scrape from every mark all the way through the tips, then a couple full length scrapes from the last mark and sand smooth. When I think the tips are getting thin I start lifting the scraper up at the 6-8 inch mark. I do it that way from the start now and slowly work my way closer to the fades. Don't know if I explained that right but it makes sense when I'm looking at it and it worked great the last few bows.Or I can find my starting point which may be different on each limb by using a gizmo. If the deepest bend is at the fade set the gizmo and were it start to mark that's were I start my one inch marks.

[Pat B]

You will have to work the mid limbs to relieve the stress on the fades.

[Wolftrail]

I build mostly laminated bows from maple for the most part, sometimes oak and black walnut.  Tillering these animals can be a pain, but I have to say tillering a bow is the most Humbling experience I ever encountered. .    

"You will have to work the mid limbs to relieve the stress on the fades."  right now the mid limbs are bending more than enough and the limbs have only taken 1/8" of set after pulling 27".   I'm treading lightly ............   :p

[John Malone]

1/8 inch of set!!!! Good grief man throw it away and start over.  

[mwosborn]

Originally posted by John Malone:
1/8 inch of set!!!! Good grief man throw it away and start over.    

[Pat B]

The fades are the last place to bend, whether it's a stiff handle bow or a bendy handle bow always bring the bend back into the fades after the rest of the limb is bending properly.
 Even on glass bows, the weakest part is where the riser fades into the limb.

[mikkekeswick]

Originally posted by fujimo:
i agree with Roy  and Pat, both build phenomenal bows, pats bows are amazing works of art, never seen any with pronounced set, and folk who shoot them really seem to like them.
I actually have one of roys bows- that bow is incredible. silky smooth to shoot,sending a hunting weight arrow down range at 174fps- incredible for a wooden bow!
I like it so much, i have another one on its way!!

i am pretty sure they are not chasing the tillering around the limb, i would imagine their changes in areas of focus are incredibly subtle, maybe its simply adding a regimen to an otherwise artistic feel.

I didn't say anybody in particular was chasing tiller about nor did I mention pronounced set.
What I said holds water if you think it doesn't please explain why you think so. I have plenty of bows that shoot 10gpp arrows in the 180's and a couple in the low 190's....but I guess I was just lucky eh!
I'll repeat that there is no need whatsoever to leave areas even slightly stiff as you work another area. If you notice an area is slightly stiff remove wood there - simple!
The goal with a wooden bow is perfectly even strain. Anything else is overstressing somewhere and you will lose some return speed. Notice I said 'some return speed' ;~) Not everything is black and white....

[Roy from Pa]

I cut bows up that get 1/8 inch of set... LOL, not really.

[Forwardhandle]

Tiller is always a interesting subject to me because it was so confusing to me when I first started , still no exspert but when I was reading threads & books I figured out that no matter who was talking about it or what method they where using they all where saying the same thing and that is get the bow to full draw with smooth even tapers and the least amount of stress on the wood , but with self bows with character it's a lot easer said then done !

[Wolftrail]

Originally posted by Roy from Pa:
I cut bows up that get 1/8 inch of set... LOL, not really.

   I had to throw a number out there, when I started this addiction I was getting 1 1/2" of set.