Whats the deal with carbon manufacturers?

[Terry Green]

I'm gonna email ya George........

[Lewis Brookshire III]

George you REALLY need to give the Arrow Dynamics a try. With what you just described wanting, they would fit Perfectly! You will be shooting them out of every weight bow you have and want even have to worry about spine sizes. As long as you aren't shooting -35lb. or +80lb bows.

By the way what are you mushrooming all those carbons on?? I have only did that once and I accidentally hit a piece of 2" steel. Oops! LOL

[IB]

Lewis I'd recon he will be      

[Kingstaken]

Lewis and Vance I hope someone gets something from this topic  

I got two.

1- Why are longbows all long?

2- Why are recurve bows called recurve bows? Why not just curved bows? Where they done over?

[Lewis Brookshire III]

Im sure Terry is gonna hook em up!

Jim, there's always the ever so popular "Who likes metal risered trad bows?" or "Is a hybrid really a longbow?" LOL

[Shawn Leonard]

Wow read my last post and I need spell check. Shawn

[Kingstaken]

LOL Lewis.

How about "Do instinctive shooters really shot instinctively shoot or do they shoot point of aim"


Shawn Sir, I already put that in the suggestion quiver. For long replies it's beter to do on word then after spell check copy and paste.

[JC]

Tip of my hat to ya Sir George....nicely worded. We shall agree to respect each other and each shoot the arrows of his own choosing.

imho, Carbon express discontinued the most durable arrow created when they dumped the terminator hunter line...heavy, both a medium and stiff spine, tough as a russian dock worker. Got me a stockpile I'm real careful with. Next in line would be the newer axis varieties...have had good luck the (again discontinued) beman mfx max4's. Again, heavy, available in multiple spines, very tough. Mushrooming these are pretty tough to do. I can do it sometimes, but then my grandmother used to say I could tear up a bowling ball.

Now, you tell me where to find some 25year old POC (cuz ain't nobody gonna convince me the current crop is as good) that spines 90-95#, and I'll help you tune up some carbons that weigh want you want    

Shawn, you may have an exceptionally smooth release...I on the other hand have a poor release and a deep hook like a hammer. I desperately need the stiff spines and heavy FOC to get my arrows to fly like I want. If I can see anything other than a nock as it's flying, something is wrong. The spines you often recommend are 10-20# too light for me. That's why I say there are just too many varibles (bow centershot, shooter, point weight etc.) to accurately make the call for everyone. I wish I had it down to the science you have for making your choices. But for me carbons are a trail and error and until we learn more about them (and the danged manufacturers come to a standard), I think that's what we are left with in most cases.

Now, as for serious questions, just how much wood CAN a woodchuck chuck?

[vermonster13]

Is now a good time for a group hug?    :p

[JC]

I could hug George, but I don't think I could get my arms around you Dave....   :p

[Lewis Brookshire III]

[George D. Stout]

My wife says, "don't hug him till you check his teeth."      

[fatman]

OK, to stir the pot....

Jim's original question was how come the carbon mfr's don't have a nifty chart where you can pick your shaft length/point combo, match it to your draw weight/draw length, and go to town...
Easton Aluminum has (after a Wikipedia search) 68YEARS of data to build upon, whereas the carbon industry (with constant changes) hasn't built up that data, and probably won't until "advances" slow down.  The physical properties of Aluminum have probably not changed much in 68 years....
George, I'll agree that it's EASY to put together a good heavy arrow together with aluminum.  I use them.  And it's easy to get them into the "Heavy FOC" range (as opposed to EFOC), if you care about that stuff....
I also have been playing with EFOC and carbon arrows...just because I feel that if I can gain advantage for something tougher than my "standard" whitetails and turkeys, it may be useful someday....but I ain't throwin' away my aluminum....
Business practices are different today than when Mr Easton started, and marketers look at a product line with a microscope, so if they feel they can make more money with 3-4 shafts and FORCE customers to tune an arrow to the bow, rather than the other way around, that's the way it'll stay...and they'll bring out a "new improved" version before everybody's figured out the current crop....
So let's really toss a fly in the soup....why hasn't anyone revived fiberglass arrows?  One of the reason carbon is so expensive is that there is a lot of demand (and limited supply) for carbon in a lot of different manufacturing fields.  SOMEONE surely has data tucked away on fiberglass arrows.  Grizzly Stiks started with Ed going to a fishing rod manufacturer and having them whip something up for him...seems that fiberglass arrows could find "new life" with all the heavier weight/EFOC efforts.....

[fatman]

By the way, I support BOTH JC and George's position.  The EFOC thing is great, and I think that improving the efficacy of our chosen projectile is important...but sometimes, a fella can feel like less than resposible for going after a whitetail with something less than a 650gr, EFOC arrow...
I read a story once by Jack O'Connor, where a disgruntled customer had sent a letter to Nosler bullets because one of their Partitions had failed to completely penetrate an animal.  Mr Nosler's reply was "at what point in the animal's death did the bullet fail?"

As Terry Green has said, sometimes we just need to go huntin'......

[JOKER]

I am not for sure on this but I think that alot of the mushrooming (insert pushed back into arrow)that people see on carbons is due to glue failure. I have not had this problem with my CX arrows and inserts that I have instaled.

When I instal inserts I square the end of the shaft, clean inside of shaft with wire brush (rifle cleaning brush), clean insert with sand paper, and use AAE Fastset Gel to glue inserts in. With this system I have found that the good thing is they don't come out and the bad thing is they won't come out.
 
Steve

[Kingstaken]

Fatman good points. I guess with all the Olympic style shooters who dress prim and proper at shoots, the manufacturers think trad or even wheely shooters for that matter should pray and be lucky to grab the table scraps.   )
Speaking now of "Fibreglass" arrows, does the weather have any effect on them. Would they have to be stored more cautiously then carbons?

Steve good practice.    

[NDTerminator]

Originally posted by JC:


imho, Carbon express discontinued the most durable arrow created when they dumped the terminator hunter line...heavy, both a medium and stiff spine, tough as a russian dock worker. Got me a stockpile I'm real careful with.

I second this.  

Of all the carbons I've tried, I like CX Terminator Hunters best. I too have a stash of both 4560's and 6075's that I'm hoarding.

a 29.5" 4560 with 3-4" vanes, 50 grain insert, and 125 grain point comes out to 525 grains and flies great from all my bows from 50#-55#. Even though I primarily shoot alums, I always have a couple of these in the quiver.

a 30" 6075 flies quite well from the heavier of my recurves, but I pretty much reserve these arrows for my 60# Caribou that I shoot barebow/fingers...

[fatman]

Jim, I wouldn't think FRP would have any inherent problems with the "elements"...they make boats and septic tanks out of it, hard to think us lil' ol' Tradgangers could come up with anything worse....    
Jon, that right there is the shame of the whole thing, and we "traditionalists" may be the victims of the overall "whack 'em & stack 'em" marketing philosophy that says you gotta have the latest and greatest....
If you find something that works, better stock up, 'cause they'll discontinue it soon.....  

[JC]

Jon, holler if you find any 60/75's you don't want   :D  

Kevin, as soon as I found they were discontinuing the mfx max 4 for a lighter shaft, I bought 4doz (all I could find) at a discounted bulk price. Seems the guy couldn't sell them cause they were "last years arrows".   :eek:

[yamapup]

I'm going to break down and buy some .600 carbons, because I think there is some blurry wrting on the wall. It tells me that Easton will, bit by bit, began dropping some of the types and sizes of their alums. they have already done that in some of their aluminums already. That's why GGs only come in four sizes. Since folks are learning to tune more, And I'm guessing that they will also need treat alums much like carbons in the future.-Pup