I can't find my "favorite" broadhead

[DarkeGreen]

I agree with JC. Plus when you look at the changes you request you really just change the shape of a few broadheads already on the market. It is the long and skinny plus the tanto nose and lack of 2 more blades that make it work. When you make the head wider, add the bleeders and do the math you now have every other two blade with bleeders on the market. In theory if you add 1/2" in width you'll need to add 1 1/2" in lenght to offset the change. Then you'll need to add a bit more to offset the extra work required to cut a bigger hole.

There isn't anything special about copper brazing steel to make a broadhead. It is done so they can make the broadheads cheep enough for people to buy.

Cost would be a factor, penetration would be a factor, and rather than bending heads they would shatter. I'm not saying improvements couldn't be made but if you add up you list it we already have it...it just looks different.  

[buck-tamer00]

stos then.

[doctorbrady]

One last point to consider. When shooting big game in Africa, where Dr. Ed did his earlier studies, blood trails are not an issue.  The trackers don't depend on them like we do on this continent.  Penetration, there is really the issue, so a lean grizzly will do just fine.  You just need to get it through both lungs, despite what you might encounter along the way.  On lighter skinned/boned animals here, penetration is important, but leaving a blood trail that we can follow is equally important.  Here a gash that won't easily close becomes important, and a little extra width to catch a vessel that might have otherwise been a "near miss" is good.  In such a case a 3 or 4 blade, or a really wide blade (Simmons, Magnus 1, etc) will likely yield better results.  If I had a Stos with a flared back end or a Simmons with a tip that wouldn't curl, I would have only one package of broadheads on my work bench instead of the 4 or 5 varieties I have now.

[ChuckC]

Looks like you are gonna have to make some trade heads and tie them on.  Then you can make any size / shape you need.  I'll bet there are a handful of guys here that can do it for you if you draw a design.
ChuckC

[Steve H.]

I agree with your comments on weak metal on the WW.

The Ribtek 190 will do at a lesser hardness what others fail.  Think of it as a broadhead equivalency to depleted Uranium by the way that the metal is compressed on the edges during manufacturing.  The copper brazed thing is what you do when you can't do it with ONE piece!

[Roger Norris]

A Grizzly with bleeders is interesting...would the rotation that the single bevel supposedly creates be screwed up by a bleeder blade?

Or is the Grizzly rotation thing kind of mute, since the arrow is spinning anyway?

You talk about 'breakaway" bleeders, and I assume you mean the standard common bleeders we all know...would a removeable, but more durable bleeder be an advantage or disadvantage, in your opinion? I'm asking anyone, by the way....

[Charlie Lamb]

To all... having been associated with Magnus broaheads years ago (when they were in their "development" stage) I can say that when considering introducing a new broadhead to the market, one should have deeeeep pockets.

It's certainly not a ticket to untold riches and struggling to break even and still produce a decent product is the norm.

Much better to develope the concept than the actual product, then sell that to someone.  :D  

Roger... I've killed a pile of critters with the Magnus I and the standard bleeder that comes with it... and it works fine.
I've seldom had them "break away" with most hard impact shots resulting in bent bleeders.
They are high angle (choppy) in shape and I don't care for that a whole lot because it takes more energy to get them deep... I usually shoot enough bow to make that happen though!    

I was so afraid of those factory bleeders in the early days that I used Bear Razorhead bleeders in the Magnus I to very good effect.
Matter of fact, I've gone back to doing that very thing again

The Bear bleeders are much more apt to bend around hard stuff and maintain their integrity.

So I guess my answer would be that a more durable (heavier) bleeder would be a detriment.... the old Ace's had it right. Long, low, heavy duty bleeder that wasn't going anywhere and penetrated like gang busters.

Get Bob Mayo to reintroduce that head and you'd have something.

[Roger Norris]

Charlie - got a picture of that old Ace head?

[Mike Orton]

Roger,
The old Bear Razorhead two blade broadheads used to have a bleeder that you could insert to make the head into a four blade.  But those bleeders were designed to break off if hard bone was contacted, thus in theory, allowing the arrow to continue penetration.  They didn't always break, just on a scapula or solid vertebra.
That's what I was referring to when I mentioned a Grizzly w/ a breakaway bleeder.

Charlie, in today's industrial world any new broadhead that was to be produced would be a copy of one or more of the best features of American made technology, but only produced in China for pennies on the dollar.  Is the TradGang translated into Chinese?  I don't think I've ever seen any TradGangsters from the People's Republic of China????  

[Mike Bolin]

Mike, a friend of mine has had pretty good luck using a dremel tool with and ultra-thin cutting wheel, slotting the big Stos 'heads to accept the Magnus bleeders. I am not sure what the large bleeders weigh....maybe 25 grains? With the 160 grain Stos you shouldend up very close to 180-185 grains. I would think the weight lost from cutting the slots would amount to no more than 5-7 grains. If you don't want to mess with doing it yourself, I would bet a local machine shop wouldn't charge much to slot them for you! Just a thought! Mike

[bentpole]

Mike how about Zephyr Sasquatch 140 grain 4 blade and add a 100 grain steel insert or I shoot Muzzy phantoms 220 grain 4 blade screw ins. The muzzy's are scarey sharp..

[bayoulongbowman]

I found mine...3:1 ratio Modoc 125 0r 145 gr. 50 rockwell spring steel, flys like field tips...new owner , better product!!!! with this size its great on any game in North America!!!!      :D    

[bm22]

with so much talk of "sharping easily but holding an edge" isn't that kind of an oxymoron ? If it sharpens easily then id doesn't hold the edge it has. i think if something sharpens easily then it MUST have softer metal then something that takes awhile to hone an edge. the harder it is to get the edge the harder something must be to take it away or dull the head. that is my redneck logic and i could be dead wrong.

[bowdude]

Stos with ground down tanto tip and filed one way, the opposite of Grizzleys to work with my left wing fletching and ashbys results.  Has worked well for me.

[Pat B.]

I sure had good luck with the 145 grain Eclipse this year.. Good steel and with a 100-125 grain steel insert you've got good weight up front.
May not have that 3 to 1 ratio but still a very nice big game head. In fact, it's my pick of the litter currently.. Plus they make them in 4 blade ala an insert as you request.

[Mike Orton]

Mike Bolin
I was considering trying the EDM machine (I think it's called Electro Discharge Machining)  It's more accurate than the Dremel and can make a smaller cut.  But I bet the dremel would also work.  I wonder if the old injector razor blades could be adapted to the Grizzly?

BM22, you are right on correct...the type of metal that takes a honing from a stone to sharpen is what I'm looking for in a broadhead.  I use a horizontal spinning wet stone to sharpen my broadheads.  When someone tells me their broadhead is easy to sharpen that tells me the metal is already too soft for my taste.

Pat,  I'm hearing many folks speak highly of the stos, particularly with the reground tanto head.  That one deserves a good hard look.

Thanks to all for your thoughts and wisdom/experiances.  Keep those thoughts following.

I've reached out for the guys at Grizzly via telephone.  If anyone has email contact for them please advise.  I'd like to talk to those folks about getting some raw grizzlies to tinker with, for the purpose of modifying a bleeder blade system and attempt to have them manufacture a wider broadhead from the start.

[Charlie Lamb]

Roger... as luck would have it I boxed up my broadhead collection yesterday and moved it to storage until I close on my new place on the 23rd.

Afraid that Ace won't see the light of day until after that. But I will get you a pic of it when I do.

I think it might have been called the Alaskan 4 blade. The bleeders could be a bear to remove but that ain't all bad.

Maybe Falk will chime in with a pic. He seems to have a great collection.

Mike Orton... the trouble with petitioning a company like the makers of the Grizzly to make a larger/wider head is that the blades are pretty close to finish dimention when they are punched out of the die.
That means there would have to be new dies made and that is the great expense of making new broadheads.

Once the tooling has been made then they have to be paid for and quite frankly Grizzly doesn't have that big a share of the broadhead market. It would take them forever to pay for the tooling even with huge popularity of the new product.

[Mike Orton]

Charlie,

I can appreciate the wisdom of your vast years of experience, but I've got to at least try to reach out to Grizzly.  Who knows, maybe he'll want to sell the company.  I'm looking at a soon to be retirement anyway.  

[Charlie Lamb]

Anything is possible Mike.... good luck.  

[SlowBowinMO]

Grizzly doesn't do e-mail.  Phone is the way to go, but this is not a good time of year to get ahold of him.  His other business runs him ragged till March or so.