Teflon Paint

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Someone had a post which mentioned that their local school had just been repainted with a Teflon paint; so that graffiti could be easily removed from the walls; and wondering if it would make a 'slick' arrow finish. I can't remember what thread it was on, and couldn't locate it again.

I'd never heard of Teflon paint, but did a Google search and, sure enough, there it is! Seems it was originally developed to help protect tiles on the space shuttle; to reduce friction on the tile's adhesive during re-entry. It's now being used on the hulls of high-performance race boats, of all sorts. It's also being used as a premium auto finish, and it seems a few auto dealers are already offering it as an optional 'add on'.

There may well be some interesting possibilities for arrow finishes here. The cost looks fairly high, but it's not any more costly than the 5 coat finish mixture I've been using on my wood shafts.

My 'test plate' is pretty full at the moment, but I though I'd pass this along to whomever was asking about the Teflon paint. It would be great if someone on TG wanted to do a bit of experimenting (Hint, Hint). Even a 'subjective impress' of the slickness of the Teflon paint, when coated with fresh blood, would be interesting. Some actual shots into tissues would be even more interesting. The Teflon coated BH's certainly show an advantage in soft tissue penetration.

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

[Dave Bulla]

Cool!

[Bjorn]

Interlux appears to be a supplier along with a couple of two part epoxy teflon paints as well.
I will start by finding some Teflon paints in the next day or two; couple of different ones, and dip some shafting in the stuff, and report back as soon as I have some results.

[bowdude]

There is also a black graphite paint that has been on the market for years.  Used in the back of dump trucks, grain haulers etc.  Anywhere you don't want something to stick to the side.  Buy it at farm supplies I believe.  We have used it for special applications at work.  May be much cheaper but can't vouch for durability from wearing off in targets etc.    

[Naphtali]

Ed:

'Twas I in my thread about wood shafting in no-nonsense trad seasons. I read about Idaho's "new" season in a Dec/Jan 2002 issue of Traditional Bowhunter. Idaho created entirely new seasons (archery and ML) where there had been no hunting. Among archers' restrictions identified: no sights; no compound bows; arrow shafts must be wood; broadheads must be barbless. You get the idea.

I know essentially nothing about wood arrows except what you've written. Since apparently hickory is your preferred easily attainable shaft wood, and I anticipate a laminated wood shaft to be significantly more dimensionally stable than single-layer shafting, I queried a laminated wood fabricator whether a laminated hickory (at least 17 plies per inch) of approximate shaft thickness was available. If not, I also asked for a price for a small run of sheeting, and 12-foot [nominal] dowel.

One little detail I know nothing about that you may. To improve weight distribution of a tapered wood shaft while maintaining its rigidity, has anyone considered fluting the rear portion (don't have a clue how much length) of a shaft, as one flutes a benchrest rifle barrel?

And to really venture into the Twighlight Zone -- hey we're dealing with wood, so cost would not be an outrage -- were fluting helixed to match where fletching would be affixed, would this allow the shaft itself to assist fletching in stabilizing arrow's flight?

[bowhunter97]

wonder how it would take to flexing?

[Dave Bulla]

naphtali,
One way I've heard of decreasing the weight in the rear of a shaft is to bore a hole about 8 inches into the end essentially making it hollow.

[Art B]

That teflon paint sounds interesting! Heck, I could paint my broadheads also   . Slickest finish I've used is polyurethane over parafin wax.

Naphtali, you might want to look into the cane or bamboo shafts. Or maybe some of the hardwood shoots. Not an easy road to hole if you're just starting the learning process but IMO these types of natural materials will more then meet your needs.

Darn, wish they still made that lead wool  :( ! ART B

[Bjorn]

I prepped a wood shaft last night with a marine sealer and applied a coat of paint containing teflon to it today. Won't be completely dry till tomorrow night, we will see what it feels like.
The shiniest surface is not the slickest-in fact shiny creates drag. Sailboat racers wet sand hulls with 400 grit which supposedly has the least drag--yeah I know it isn't an animal!

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Bjorn,

Looking forward to hearing about the results. I just keep feeling that there's a finish out there that would be simple to apply, and at least as low-friction (in the presence of blood) as the very pricey and labor intensive five coat finish I've been using.

Lance,

Yes, just as with a laminated rifle stock, the laminated wood shafts tend to be a bit more stable. I've never heard of anyone fluting a wood shaft. That could be interesting to try. The only fluted shafts I know of were the very thin wall aluminums that Easton had on the market for a while. Supposedly, the flutes increased rigidity and (it was claimed) improved the air flow along the shaft.

Dave's idea about the hollowed shaft rear is similar to some primative three part shafts; a cane rear shaft, solid mid-shaft and a detachable fore shaft. Such arrows are sometimes used by the Bushmen. The foreshaft (poisoned) remains in the animal. I always figured the 2 part rear shaft was a result of making best use of the materials at hand, in an environment where ideal construction materials weren't always available, and re-using the parts of any broken shafts as long as possible was almost a necessity.

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

[Bjorn]

Dr.Ashby, I dipped 3 shafts in the teflon paint and matched them up with 'regular' shafts of exact weight, diameter, and taper.
The Teflon paint is slow to dry, so they will sit for a couple of days........I don't have any dead animals hanging around; what do you suggest I shoot them into?

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Bjorn, there's not much that replicates blood-suffused fresh tissues, however, here are a couple of 'initial test' ideas.

Try one of the arrows into a new dense foam target (or a part of a target that's not full of holes. use it side by side with one having the finish you normally use. Don't pay as much attention to the penetration as you do to the (subjective) force required to extract the arrows from the foam.

Next test doesn't require an arrow. Take a scrap of board and paint a part of it with the Teflon paint and part with your normal finish; leaving a third part unfinished. Whenever you DO have some fresh blood (which is not all that uncommon around MY workshop) drip a few drops onto each surface, then evaluate how 'slick' each feels with the blood on it.

Those two test usually give some subjective idea of 'slickness' of the finish. Next step is to wait until hunting season and do a few test shots into a freshly downed animal with arrows with and without the finish.

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

[Littlefeather]

Bjorn, What's the spine and length on those arrows? I've about gotten over my "rest period" and I'm ready to get back to piggy sticking. I'd be glad to field test one or two on some pigs.

Doc, Good to see your still at it. Mad scientist!        

You still state-side? Debbie cleaned your bedroom yesterday.  :D

[Rufus]

Well now what kinda glue might we be using ya spose?

[Bjorn]

Curtis,these were not made up to any particular spec. I grabbed some shafts that were on the bench at the time; they are 28.5 BOP and 60-65#, they weigh a bit over 400 grains without points.
I can make up others if these won't work for you.
Thanks for stepping up!

[Dave Huff]

Brownells which is a gun parts catalog sells a Teflon Moly bake on paint.  Moly coating is a big deal for handloaders and competition shooters to use on there bullets.  Moly coated bullets reduce friction, barrel fowling, and chamber pressures. I've used the Teflon Moly paint several times on firearms, you heat the item, spray it, then bake it at 180 degrees for an hour or depending on the size of the part.  Once it's baked, it's TOUGH.  I wonder if this is what Eclipse uses on their heads?  I would imagine that it would work well on broadheads as long as you didn't build up real thick.

[sendero25]

Dr Ashby,
There is a substance used here in Florida by airboat owners to make their aluminum and fiberglass hulls "ultra-slick" the product is called "frog spit". It is a paint or sprayed on product.
There is an airboat dealer not far from my home, I'll go by and check and see if I can get a small sample to try on both shafts and broadheads.
John

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

David,

It would be interesting to know if that is the same, or similar, to the Teflon coat Eclipse is using on their BH's. Does it come out that same grey color as the Eclipse? I've used the early moly bullet coatings, but they were not a bake-on finish, and didn't hold up well.

Bjorn,

Yes, Curtis would be a great tester for them. He's continually generating a "blood-suffused environment", just right for testing!

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

[Dave Huff]

Brownells makes it in several different colors, the closest to the Eclipse would be their stainless paint, but they also make it in dark grey, black, OD green and I believe a tan.  As I did, the early Moly coatings where a powder that coating on in the brass tumbler. I use nothing but baked on moly bullets now. I unfortuantly do not have any of this paint left to try it with.  each can is about $20 but I'm sure would be enough to do several dozen broadheads.  I'll see if I can get the link to the paint.

[Dave Huff]

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1145&title=TEFLON/MOLY%20OVEN%20CURE,%20GUN%20FINISH  

here's the whole link to the paint. Looks like they now have 8 different colors and a tell all on how it works.  Looks like the price went up a bit since the last time I bought it.