Teflon Paint

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Thanks, David. I think I'll send a can of that to Curtis to try out. I already have more test planned for this year's testing than I'm likley to get done.

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Okay, one can ordered and on its way to Curtis. We'll see how it works! If it does, it will be great.

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

[Jacobm]

I wasn't going to post anything on this until later in the week but it seems to fit here.  I'm a powder coater and last week I spoke with one of my powder rep's from DuPont (makers of Teflon) about coating broadheads.  He checked with the Teflon devision and they are sending a sample they suggest to use for coating broadheads.  DuPont has at least 5 basic types of Teflon and the one they are sending is applied much the same way as powder coatings.  I'll be happy to coat a few heads for others willing to test it out. Mark

[Earl E. Nov...mber]

There is also spray lubricant with Teflon on the market.. We have used it at work, although I don't think we have any right now.. It stuck pretty good, but would flake off after a while..
I'll check to see if I can be more specific.

[Littlefeather]

Bjorn, You couldn't have chosen a better shaft for me. Perfect except for being a half inch longer than my standard arrow. Even the spine and weight are good. If ya want to send one or two I'll give you my address. I'd love to test them!

Thanks Doc for the teflon. I'll give it a solid testing. I've been needing to build some new arrows anyway. After this last couple of months my stuff is looking pretty poor.    

Curtis Kellar
1573 Ckodre Rd
Runge, Texas 78151 (no mis-spellings)

[Paul Mattson]

I am also curious of the type of glue you will using.

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Mark,

It will be interesting to see how the Teflon coating they recommend works out. I know a couple more BH makers are looking at the possibility of Teflon finishes, but it would be good if there was a way it could be added onto anyone's BH of choice.

Paul,

That's a thought that had occurred to me, but figured one could always just use an enamel crown dip and apply the Teflon paint from the area of fletching forward. However, with the enormous number of speciality adhesives available today, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't one that would work. Of course, the paint can be sanded off the point taper, so no problem there.

Ed
EGMM Family of the Bow

[d. ward]

Wilton Hamilton 733 So.31st St.South Bend Ind.46413...Filed Aug.19th 1974 Ser.No.495 Terms of patent 14 years ist.Cl.D22-03 United States Patent Des.236,465 Patented Aug.26 1975..Hamiltons broadheads and arrows were both coated with teflon.But there is very little research or testing done with the Hamiltons...I will try and post a pic....bowdoc

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

dON,

A fascinating bit of archary history. I've never heard of them. Little is new in archery/bowhunting. I think we're just rediscovering a lot of things that escaped man's 'corporate memory' through the years. Hopefully, we'll have the information better recorded this time around!

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

[d. ward]

Hey Doc,here's Hamiltons pat.app.This one does not mention about the teflon coating.I will try and find the actul add to post.Also note the tiny bleeder blade they have.And as you mentioned it seemed odd most guy's did not keep notes of thier testings.I've only talked with one person who arrowed a small whitetail doe with a Hamilton broadhead and arrow..I asked him if he thought the teflon coating made any difference.He said he only shot about 8-10 yards with a 60# recurve from a tree stand(pass thru).So he really could not help much with the info I was looking for at the time.I really never did find any info on testing them.But I did think it was a good idea....bowdoc  

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Great stuff, Don. I find it fascinating that someone was already tinkering with Teflon on BH's and shafts way back when Teflon was just getting common on pots and pans!

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

[Bjorn]

Curtis, the paint I used is a bear to work with-red paint all over the shop. It sticks to everything except my arrow shafting! LOL!!
The paint creeps and wrinkles even when 'dry'.
I probably should have used their primer.
There is only one good one-and that will be in the mail to you today.

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Bjorn, well, that's ONE new lesson learned already! How 'tough' does the finish seem to be? Figure you'll find that out trying to get it off everything!    

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

[Earl E. Nov...mber]

You can get the Teflon spray lube from McMaster Carr or MSC on line, about $12.00 a can. Certainly sticks well enough to protect your broadhead and lube the  shaft for a season. Dries white, so you can be like Ted.. Quiet honestly I doubt you find a glue to stick to it.

[Bjorn]

Today I was able to compare blood on the Teflon paint and regular arrow dip.
The Teflon surface was way more slippery and became lubricated immediately-a very noticeable difference.
Additionally I shot identical arrows into a foam target for broadheads and field tips. There was no difference in extracting the arrows.
I suspect they were 'air locked' into the target and any coefficient of friction would be negated.
Later, in a hay bale the Teflon did appear to come out cleaner but that was inconclusive.
The paint is very soft and even after a few days can still be dented with a finger nail. We need to try different types. A clear finish would be ideal.
Let's see how Curtis makes out on the real thing.

[hunt it]

Doc & Curtis,

Moly (molybdendum sulphate) has been used for years to reduce friction on projectiles. It can be purchased in it's purest form as a powder which is then generally applied to bullets by means of tumbling them in commercial tumbler with minute quantity of moly powder. This application works for bullets that see little wear and tear ie: bullet box to chamber and does not work good for hunting rounds that are carried around and rechambered frquently as the powder coat wears off easily. Hence the spray on versions that are now available such as product from Brownell's (moly mixed with a bonding agent - not pure moly). A number of the major bullet manufacturer's have now started mixing their own form of moly mixed with a bonding agent which is baked on the give better wearing finish. Moly does indeed provide a better lubricity than teflon but in it's pure form is not as nice to work with. Moly also adhears better (at high temp) and withstands higher temps better than teflon, not really an issue with arrows and broadheads. Little is known as to the toxicity of molybdendum sulphate but general concensus is in small doses it should pose no issues to humans. Good luck! If you really want good penetration why not fill the shaft with FFG and put a small rifle primer inside the insert and screw the broadhead in very very carefully!

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Bjorn,

The slickness in blood sounds good. The 'softness' may pose a problem. I did note that there is a coating that is added over the Teflon paint on boat bottoms.

David,

I've tried some of the straight moly products in the past. Durability was the big problem. The spray I ordered from Brownell’s is the moly-Teflon bake-on you’re talking about. It should arrive tomorrow.

John, What is the chemical compound in “Ultra-Slick”?

There’s no doubt that a finish that lowers the frictional coefficient in the presence of blood is going to give a penetration boost in soft tissues.  If we can find one that’s easy to use and durable, then there’s no real reason not to avail ourselves of that bit of penetration gain.

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

[Voodoofire1]

Interesting thread, just wondering though if anyone has tried rain-x on their arrow shafts? I use it on my 3-d arrows makes a difference in foam, seems like it would help on bloody tissue...

[Naphtali]

You might try charring shafts' ODs or boning them (a toothbrush handle is okay for the job). Both actions will improve surface hardening. Having a harder basis material on which to affix slick surface material may enhance properties of surface material applied.

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Could be, Lance. Wonder if it would take better on the dense woods; or those compressed?

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow