Great stump shooting=poor target shooting?

[Jackrhendricks]

I was able to find another thread that discribed the same issue I have but didn’t have very many solutions(maybe there isn’t any?). In short, when stumping I shoot fairly well, and can hit pine cones, pop cans, leaves etc and keep my arrow groups Pretty tight from 15-30 yards the majority of the time. I shoot fairly well when shooting at business cards on blank bales as well. I then shoot a bag target  with a standard bullseye and dots on it and “shotgun” arrows all over it( I do slightly better on 3ds but not great). The problem seems obvious to me in the sense that I just am not aiming/focusing “small” enough,  but  painting a smaller dot on my bulleye  seems to not improve it and I’d rather keep my 3D target looking “natural”. So How do I fix my mind in this regard? Any ideas on how I can translate my better shooting over to targets and more importantly 3ds and game?

I shoot instinctive.

[McDave]

I think you may be making more of an issue out of this than it really is.  You could be your own worst enemy. I shoot roving targets and bullseye targets every day.  In between each bullseye target we try to pick out one or more roving targets.  Sometimes I do better on roving targets, sometimes on bullseye targets.  Some days I do lousy on both.  Just focus on the experience of shooting, whatever the target may be.  Clearly, whatever the target may be, you have to pick a spot.  The process of shooting the bow is the same, whatever the target may be.  If you have a preconceived notion that you are going to shoot good or bad on any particular target, you are probably correct.  You can’t just decide to change your preconceived notions, so don’t try.  Just decide that you are going to enjoy each shot, whatever the outcome may be. 

[pavan]

A few years ago a guy trying to shoot a longbow like a compound was bitching how worthless it was, so he sold it to me for peanuts.  The thing was a wet noodle with my less than 27" draw, but perfect for a tall friend of mine.  I gave it to him and taught him to shoot using the Schulz video.  In seven years he has taken six shots at deer and killed six deer, along with rabbits, pheasants, two geese in flight, he is hell for bumble bees.  The target in my back yard is four foot square, I hold my breathe when he gets back to 20 yards, my poor garage.   Stick a green apple on an arrow stuck in the ground in front of the target and he is chewing that apple up in just a couple of shots.   Some people just need something real to shoot at, natural hunters.

[Sam McMichael]

Just wondering if it could be an issue with picking a spot. When stump shooting, you are usually forced to concentrate on a smaller target. So, even if you shoot "at the whole target" instead of a tiny spot, you are still likely to be close to the center when shooting small things. However, failing to properly pick a spot, but engaging a larger target target as a whole, may bring about a wider miss. Even though not a great archer, I usually concentrate better knowing I am shooting at something small.

[Jackrhendricks]

Appreciate the responses so far. Maybe I am making into something more than it is. It’s just more convenient for many reasons to be able to shoot targets and have confidence in it. I may start looking at different styles of targets, blank ones where I can place objects onto or paint a single small dot.

Any other ideas?

[McDave]

There are two kinds of bullseye targets we use on our range: hunter and field.  They both have concentric 3-4-5 rings, but the only thing you can really see when you shoot  the hunter target is the white 5 spot on a black background.  The field target has alternating black and white rings.  I have read studies that found that trad archers do significantly better on the hunter targets than the field targets, probably because the white dot on a black background is a natural spot and there are no other distractions.

Practice on the things you want to get better at.  I want to get better at everything, so I shoot at flowers, pine cones, plastic bottles, all kinds of bullseye targets, and 3D animals.  Particularly 3D animals, since that is what I want to compete at, and is the closest practice I can get to hunting.  Shooting bullseye targets can give you a false sense of confidence if you want to shoot 3D, because in most cases, the top and bottom of the 3 ring will be over or under the 3D animal.

[Krex1010]

I tend to notice the same thing. I have a bag target with several 4-5” black bullseyes. When shooting at the bulls I tend to average frustrating 6-7” groups. A few inside the bull and a few outside (5 arrow groups). I started hanging my kids old toys (Barbie dolls, small stuffed animal etc) in front of the target and my groups are much smaller. It’s a lot of fun seeing those toys blow up when I hit them. I know all the sayings of aim small/miss small, which I believe in. Honestly I think my larger groups when shooting plain bullseyes are from laziness and lack of focus on my part. It may sound silly but I think the satisfaction of hitting something makes me concentrate more. I know everyone is different but when just shooting arrows at the bag I catch myself slipping into autopilot and just flinging arrows, but when i see that toy, the one I told the kids to pick up a Thousand times smiling at me, I focus....i wanna wipe that grin of its little plastic face lol.

[McDave]

“I know everyone is different but when just shooting arrows at the bag I catch myself slipping into autopilot and just flinging arrows, but when i see that toy, the one I told the kids to pick up a Thousand times smiling at me, I focus....i wanna wipe that grin of its little plastic face lol.”

I think this is one of the biggest problems we all have, other than learning how to shoot accurately, and could be a reason why Jack is less accurate shooting at bullseye targets.  If one is going to shoot groups, one has to remember that nobody shoots “groups.”  People shoot individual arrows, and each one counts just as much as all the others.  Top archers usually allow themselves a minimum of 45 seconds between arrows to recover, both mentally and physically.

The main problem I seem to have is that if I shoot 3 arrows in a tight group, I can’t help thinking how great it would be if I could get the 4th one in there too, which usually makes me put the 4th arrow somewhere way outside the group.

[Twostrings2]

  Ah, Group Panic, dreaded brother of Target Panic and its equal in confoundment to all so afflicted.  Shoot one arrow, don't lose it and don't miss.

[B-AIR-O]

Pavan, or anybody, could you please provide me with more information re: the Shulz video you mentioned - seems you hold it in high regard.   

[Twostrings2]

 

  Above is a look at John Schulz.  There are folks who do better at roving, stump shooting, hunting, aerial and such.  Just plain target shooting seems not to arouse their full faculties.
Maybe tape a balloon in front of your bulls eye?

[B-AIR-O]

Thank you SO much for sharing that video, TwoStrings2 - knowing that is a Howard Hill disciple hits home without doubt.  I'm looking forward to absorbing it.  Muchas gracias!!