Heavy bows/ trajectory

[mahantango]

Hermon, longtoke, I believe that is the article that I'm referring to. Study by Jack Howard back in the 90s. He shot his Gamemaster Jets of various draw weights with matched arrows out of a shooting machine. Have to see if I can dig up the article

[Stumpkiller]

My question is if you could only have one last bow (at least for awhile) what weight would you feel gives you the best bang for your buck? 

Already there.  With a snappy recurve (Browning or Lee) of 51 to 55# and a 600 to 620 gr arrow.

I can shoot a 60# bow . . . but not as well.

[Tim Finley]

I think what they mean by diminishing returns is that you get more gain in speed out of a bow from say 50 to 57# than you would from 57 to 64 and or on up even though the 64 would be faster it would not be as many feet per second faster as the 50 to 57# gain in weight. You may gain 15 fps in 50 to 57  but only 10 in 57 to 64 .

[pdk25]

That is what they mean, but in my experience, that example is far beyond what I have experienced in regards to diminishing returns.  It is greatly exaggerated.

[pdk25]

And for the same model,length, string, and gpp, I have noticed no more than a couple fps difference using bows in the 70# range when compared to the 50# range.  The only bows that I have enough examples to compare are Silvertip Recurves, but I still get expected results with my other heavier bows.

I still would opt for a bow in the mid to upper 50# range if I could only have one bow long term, and had no plans on hunting dangerous game out of the country.

[longbowman]

At 64 yrs. old I have come down from my 80# longbow but "my" perfect weight bow happens to the 72# Bear T.D. that I've shot for years.  I can shoot it all day and have no ill effects.  I'm a little guy but learned to shoot heavy in the 60's and have ever since.  The only arrow material I haven't shot is carbon from that bow.  I've killed bunches of stuff with aluminum but mainly shoot wood with cedar being my preference.  I shoot my deer "upfront" not really worrying about bone and have shot through nearly every animal including bull elk.  I know I will get old someday and maybe have to get a set of little limbs for it but for now I prefer this set-up.

[newhouse114]

I'll be 60 in a few days and my everyday bow is a 65lb whip. I can shoot the same 820 grain arrow out of the whip and from my 75 lb. recurve. I get 165 FPS from the whip and 180 FPS from the recurve. The whip is just so much more fun and relaxing to shoot!! And I'm good with it out to about 40 yards and have no need to shoot any further.

[Blessed One]

I have both a 51# recurve and a 70# longbow. I shoot the same 650 grains out of both, and I can tell a noticeable difference in speed and penetration between the 2. I have found sessions shooting with the lighter bow to be helpful when working on form. The only challenge I have with the 51# is not being able to get a clean, consistant release, which I know is a form problem, but it is really helpful for feeling coming to fulldraw, and back tension. I find shooting 70# requires me to practice from 10 yards and in to focus on form so on longer shots I dont short draw the bow, which is a nice way to say target panic. From 15 yards in I am money on form, but when I get to 20 plus not so much, with the lighter bow this is not a problem, but my release is.

[Wheels2]

I have three sets of limbs from the same maker.  Weight run from 43# to 54#.  When I run each at the same g.p.p., the heavier limbs shoot slightly faster.  I have been under the long held impression that once above 60#, this changes.  Regardless, if I could shot a 70# recurve with a 700 grain arrow, I would.
I often see threads about light weight draw bows being "enough".  Sure, a 40# bow might be enough when all go right, but when things go wrong, I prefer the edge that the heavier bow/arrow provides.  And if it is not needed due to the perfect broadside, no bone hit, shot?  The arrow just sinks deeper into the dirt on the other side of the deer.

[hybridbow hunter]

That is what they mean, but in my experience, that example is far beyond what I have experienced in regards to diminishing returns.  It is greatly exaggerated.

Not only is exaggerated but it is not true. If the bowyer knows his job to go heavier in poundage he will optimize the core to glass ratio in the limbs and not just go in thicker glass nor wider limbs. With the proper built, in modern glass limbed bows in fact there is small but noticeable increase in performance. Take an odd Schaffer silvertip or a BW recurve model or heavily reflexed LB in 50# and compare it with a 70# same model on a hooter shooter with same bowstring with a properly tuned arrow for each bow and you will see usually the 10 gpp at 28" arrow speed increasing by 3 to 5 fps on the heavier bow.

[littlejohn59]

Hey Clay.
My answer to your question is  #53. After reading your thread I am concerned for you on a few accounts. I hate to break the bad news to you, but heavy bow syndrome in reality is an addiction that once out of control can be mighty painful, both health wise and on the pocket. Not to mention a pending divorce if the spending aint reeled in real quick. Though the good side to that is you will have more money to spend on those heavier bows.
You’re still young. If you want to go the distance, shooting arrows injury free when 60 plus, those higher poundages may seriously prevent you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah,…..I get it…. flatter trajectory………blah blah blah, blahI  I have heard it all before and there are going to be plenty of guys that will disagree with me. Their choice and it’s your choice too. Ask around how many archers that are injury free or have reduced their # substantially or had to give the sport away.
Find a compromise mate beteen accuracy and poundage mate.

[Charlie Lamb]

I've seen no empirical evidence that shooting heavy bows automatically results in ANY kind of injury. Here are the names of a few heavy bow shooters that did so over a long career. Howard Hill, Ben Pearson, Fred Bear, Denny Sturgis, myself, and the list goes on. Enjoy yourself. When the bows start getting too heavy you'll know it.

[LBR]

There are always exceptions to a rule.  I figure most, if not all of us that have been around for any amount of time know of someone who smoked for 60 years but never got lung cancer;  or someone who drank to excess their whole life but never got liver disease.  Might even know someone who's hunted from a tree stand without a harness and never fell. 

There's a medically documented affliction known as "repetitive motion injury".  Doesn't have to be heavy, but heavy can accelerate it and increase the chances of other injuries;  i.e. nerve damage to your fingers.

My dad finished concrete for 40 years.  In his later years, he had a lot of shoulder pain.  He saw one of the best rheumatologists in the nation.  The doc said he'd never seen shoulder joints so absolutely worn out.  A hand trowel isn't even heavy, but it wore out the shoulder joints of the toughest man I've ever known.

So yes, there is medically documented evidence.  Just like there's medically documented evidence that smoking can lead to lung cancer, or drinking to excess can lead to liver failure, or it's dangerous to hunt from a tree stand without a harness.  You might get away with it...or you might not.  Obviously it's up to the individual if they want to roll the dice.

Don't take my word for it.  Ask your M.D.

[acedoc]

Repetitive stress injury is known to happen to even typists, they do not pull a whole lot of poundage.
That said I would shoot more poundage if I was accurate enough to shoot it.
On an aside I was reading through "Hunting the hard way" Mr hill mentioned his tackle as a 110 lb split bamboo bow and a 700 grain arrow. I wonder what speed he would be getting out of the setup. As a comparison I shoot an appx 600 grain arrow out of a 55 ish ILF setup.
I can't help but think that our ke figures wouldn't be that far apart.
Ymmv

[pavan]

All of the years that i shot heavy bows, I never hurt my shoulders.  I got my chiropractor into bow hunting.  He gave a detailed presentation on the how the shoulder works when shooting a bow and how to keep from hurting it.  Howard Hill would have agreed with every word.   A month back I had a chain saw blade bind and jump the track.  No blood, but that little twisting jerk hurt my left shoulder and ended my turkey season. 

[pdk25]

 Agree with Charlie and Pavan.  No good evidence that shooting bows over a certain poundage does excessive damage to the shoulders.  Heck, you might be better off shooting half as many arrows with a substantially heavier bow from a repetitive stress standpoint. 

[TomMcDonald]

Agree with Charlie and Pavan.  No good evidence that shooting bows over a certain poundage does excessive damage to the shoulders.  Heck, you might be better off shooting half as many arrows with a substantially heavier bow from a repetitive stress standpoint.

Good archers use their backs anyway, not their shoulders.

[Maddog20/20]

I’m shooting 50# in my longbow and recurve and I’m honestly a little hesitant to move up despite being able to easily shoot a hundred arrows without really fatiguing.

At 46, I’m just worried about the long term damage to my shoulder, wrist and elbow of shooting a 70-80# bow.  I’ve talked to too many older archers that are now stuck with 35# because anything higher and they really have issues or not able to shoot at all.

Any “seasoned” guys in their 60-70’s not having issues from those heavy bows?  I keep toying with ordering heavier limbs for my take-down, but I just worry about the long term...that and since I’m accurately shooting a 590gr arrow 180fps and hitting the vitals out to 30yd, I’m not sure what I’d be gaining.


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[Hermon]

My issue is related to arthritis in my string hand.  Low 50's bows aren't too bad, but if I shoot my upper 50's bows much, the joints in my string hand hurt for several days.  Since I learned to use my back muscles my shoulder never hurts anymore.  Luckily I don't have any plans for a Cape Buffalo hunt coming up.

[pdk25]

Maddog, there is likely no compelling reason for you to move up, IMO.