Heavy bows/ trajectory

[A Lex]

Hi Lakerat,

After reading this entire thread again, I feel your question in your original post may have been missed by a few respondents. Maybe even by me too.

Your question was, and I quote:

"My question is if you could only have one last bow (at least for awhile) what weight would you feel gives you the best bang for your buck?"

My personal answer is my 75lb'er.

The reasons why? I simply shoot it far more accurately and much more consistently than any other bow I've ever shot before. I'm comfortable with it under hunting conditions, and it delivers heavy wooden arrows (which I prefer to shoot) more than just adequately. I've got a lot of confidence in MY chosen set- up.

I read and respect all the points offered here. However everyone is different, and everyone is no doubt justified in what THEY think.

All this freely shared infomation here is a grand thing indeed, and I really mean that. Ultimately though, we have to make our own choice on bow weight, based on what we believe is going to be best suited to our own individual requirements and abilities (not to mention our wallets)

Now that I've got that off my chest, did you end up getting on the list for the Mountain Monarch? They are a nice looking bow.

Best
Lex

[KeganM]

One? Last? Nope, nuh-uh. Not happening. 

Joking aside, as far as personal weight choice I really like 45-50# at 31" these days. I don't hunt anything bigger than whitetail, and could still move up to 55-60# if an opportunity for adventure arose. Messed with heavy stuff for years as a lanky teen. Thankfully I never hurt myself, but never could kill a deer with those things until I dropped back down to 62#.

As a bowyer, the point of diminishing returns is often misunderstood. As mentioned, it really depends on the bow and weight in question- and is often exaggerated. Most of the time, the biggest loss of performance usually just comes from short drawing and collapsing. Those two factors will eat up performance very quickly, making it seem like it's the bow. If the design is altered as necessary, the performance will certainly be there.

[Lakerat007]

Hi Lakerat,

After reading this entire thread again, I feel your question in your original post may have been missed by a few respondents. Maybe even by me too.

Your question was, and I quote:

"My question is if you could only have one last bow (at least for awhile) what weight would you feel gives you the best bang for your buck?"

My personal answer is my 75lb'er.

The reasons why? I simply shoot it far more accurately and much more consistently than any other bow I've ever shot before. I'm comfortable with it under hunting conditions, and it delivers heavy wooden arrows (which I prefer to shoot) more than just adequately. I've got a lot of confidence in MY chosen set- up.

I read and respect all the points offered here. However everyone is different, and everyone is no doubt justified in what THEY think.

All this freely shared infomation here is a grand thing indeed, and I really mean that. Ultimately though, we have to make our own choice on bow weight, based on what we believe is going to be best suited to our own individual requirements and abilities (not to mention our wallets)

Now that I've got that off my chest, did you end up getting on the list for the Mountain Monarch? They are a nice looking bow.

Best
Lex

Lex, no I haven't got on the list for a Monarch yet. Been so busy lately haven't had much time to do anything. But its definitely the bow I'm gonna get as soon as I run out of excuses for putting it off. Still haven't made up my mind on a pull weight but looks like I have plenty of time to think it through. Picked me up a 70# grizzly the other day off Craigslist plan on doing my hunting with that this fall. Lot of great opinions guys I appreciate it!

[Jakeemt]

There is a dude around named rick barbee who really loves heavy bows. Used to hint with a 95lb now that he notes would rock a 650 grain arrow at 200fps. Which is pretty damn fast and pretty damn heavy. Too heavy for my blood but don’t let any body tell you aight not to go heavy if that’s your cup of tea. I personally would prefer a take down recurve in that type of weight. You can find quite a few 70lbs and up of the old asblel bighorns if you look around.

[Terry Green]

 I don't understand the comment Pat I really don't know I'm not trying to be argumentative but I do not understand the comment I've greatly exaggerated the numbers the numbers are the numbers are the numbers it's a mathematical formula and a fact you can exaggerate the numbers it is what it is

[pdk25]

Terry,  either I mis-wrote or you mis-read what I said. What I was saying was essentially that there is no significant decrease in efficiency when going from a lighter bow to a heavier bow, but a significant improvement in performance when going from a lighter bow to a heavier bow.

As far as what I said about what I would chose,  under the conditions of not hunting overseas, was based on being easier to draw when cold and bundled up, and to account for not being able to keep up with shooting the heavier bows as I got older.

I was only responding that people that saying that there are diminishing returns for going up in weight are greatly exaggerating that.  I think that if they saw what my Shawnee longbow (86# @ 29") was doing with an 800 grain arrow last night, there would be no doubt that there is little dropoff in efficiency.  Once again, there are no good studies, one way or another.

[Charlie Lamb]

I agree totally Pat. I think Terry just misread. He gets in a hurry sometimes.  Kinda like his last post.   

[Bisch]

I agree totally Pat. I think Terry just misread. He gets in a hurry sometimes.  Kinda like his last post.   

Wow! That was hard to read! Looks to me like he was talking to his phone, and it wasn’t understanding his Gawja drawl!!! 

Bisch

[Terry Green]

I agree totally Pat. I think Terry just misread. He gets in a hurry sometimes.  Kinda like his last post.   

Yes Charlie exactly I did get in a hurry... I stay in a hurry that's all.... I'm too hectical for my own good at times I know
.. sorry guys.... and definitely sorry you to Pat.... carry on

[Terry Green]

I agree totally Pat. I think Terry just misread. He gets in a hurry sometimes.  Kinda like his last post.   

Wow! That was hard to read! Looks to me like he was talking to his phone, and it wasn’t understanding his Gawja drawl!!! 

Bisch

 yes sir I got to get off this voice command it doesn't work too good with this Southern draw

[pdk25]

LOL.  No worries on my end.

[Charlie Lamb]

Hey T! Try using English.   

[TomMcDonald]

Hey T! Try using English.   

And lay off the moonshine 

[pavan]

About deminshing returns.  I liked heavy bows. Jack Howard argued with me about his bow if I ordered a heavy one.  I figured, okay, so every bow was different.  At one point my wife was shooting a 45# Big 5 and I was shooting a 90 pound Big 5.  Our draw lengths are the same.  The problem i had with cedar arrow is that if I went with a 90 pound shaft with a 160 head, they were too stiff and mine weighed only a bit over 600 grains.  I made some 80# Acme cedars 27" bop just like the others and they weighed only 570 grains, but they flew straighter.  That is not a very good ratio, but they flew through deer easy enough. My wife's bow had no problems shooting 50# arrows 27" bop that weighed bit over 10 gpp. One day we were shooting for distance and I had shot some of my old target arrows with 4" four fletch out of my wife's bow.  To my surprise, they flew perfect and they flew a lot further than my arrows.  I weighed them, 6.5 gpp, that was almost identical to my gpp ratio.  I would never hunt with a 260 grain arrow, but somewhere somehow, the static hysteresis difference showed up comparing those two.  I fixed my light arrow problem by going to fiberglass arrows with a hardwood dowel glued in the lead third of the arrow.  The other observation was that the heavy arrows did not lose as much speed as i expected from the heavy bows and the same arrows would fly out of all of my over 75# bows.  Some bows pay a higher penalty with heavy arrows than others.  I think that ASLs, they are slower to begin with, but they do not lose as much cast with heavier arrows due to the weight of the limb versus stored energy of the less efficient design.     

[pdk25]

There was another gentleman on here, from NJ I think, that told me that he had done extensive chrono testing between longbows and recurves and found that the performance differences between recurves and longbows changed drastically as you went up in poundage and arrow weights, probably reflecting something similar to what you are describing, Pavan.

[pavan]

It is just something I noticed with my own bows.  The harsher reality with the one slightly slower heavy bow, it was by far my best small game and pheasant and thrown targets bow.  I grew up in pheasant country, but my first limit on three pheasants was not with a shotgun, it was with that bow. It liked 65-70 net length blunts and 70-75 with 160 broadheads.  It had almost no arrow ledge, it needed the leather finger and somehow I could quickly tell where it was pointed.  Kramer knew what he was doing.

[Charlie Lamb]

Somewhere in this story is a point. You'll have to root it out yourself.

In 1969 I was discharged from the United States Marine Corps. Being September I loaded my little Hoyt Pro Hunter into the truck with a batch of arrows and headed for western Wyoming. That little bow (58") hit 83# at my 30 inch draw. I had some good old Acme Cedars that I bought spined for the bow at a 28" draw (probably 70-75). Hell, I didn't know any better and didn't do the math. I know I ordered the shafts matched for spine and weight and trusted they were as ordered. I had no spine tester or scale in those days.

The shafts were 11/32 and I doubt that the finished arrow with Bear Razorhead would have weighed over 600 grains. I didn't give a rip about 8 grains per pound or 10 or anything. All I knew was they shot blazing fast.

I got to Wyoming and went to the local sporting goods store and bought a deer tag... Ahh the good old days. The first afternoon found me in the mountains stalking mulies. As luck would have it my hunting partner spooked a buck that ended up standing looking back at him and 40 yards from me and broadside.

I drew one of those cedars that had a broken bleeder that was held in by the ferrule cement. At the shot the whole world went into slow motion mode. The arrow hit him right through the shoulders and as it turned out penetrated the paddle of both shoulder blades and flew off to strike a boulder ten yards behind him. The bleeder never moved.

It made me a believer in heavy bows and I have many stories from then to now about the superior performance of them... now with better matched arrows of appropriate weight and spine of course.