Cost efficient, heavy weight, multi limb set take down options

[Gdpolk]

I'd like to pick up a cost efficient take down setup.  My intentions are to use this as a bowfishing rig and a training tool to work my way up in bow weight to help me pursue a few tougher critters than my typical whitetail, elk, pig, and small game that my beloved 53lb Sarells is just a little anemic for.

Must haves:

• 3-piece design allowing limbs to be swapped out as I go up in weight
• Limbs availible in weights between 65-120lbs (yes I know how much bow weight this is, I can easily draw a 65-75lb bow as is but I would like to work up to comfortably shoot a 100-120lb bow for specific upcoming hunts like bison, alligator, grizzly, etc)
• Insert on front of bow for a bowfishing reel setup
• Limbs that are accessible (no 2-5 year waits on a set of limbs or $700-800 sets of limbs) so I can work through a few pairs of limbs as I build my skills at heavier weights over the next 2 years and also so I don't kill the bank on a collection of limbs that will only be temporary.  I would rather put that money on the expenses of the hunt than on training tools with limbs.
• Low wrist grip angle or a strong enough riser to modify it into a low grip angle without sacraficing the durability of the bow.  I don't shoot high wristed bows well.

Preferences:

• Stronger is better for this build and weight is not a concern, potentially a metal riser would be best.  I love wooden one piece bows, but this project is going to require a bit of flexibility and durability that will be hard to duplicate with wood.
• ILF limbs sound appealing in terms of giving me a lot of options between multiple manufacturers in components over the years
• It would be nice if getting a metal riser for it to have a wooden grip insert similar to what Matthews compounds have so that I can custom fit a grip insert to my hand exactly but also to gain the durability of a metal riser with the thermal insulation of a wooden grip.  Holding onto an all metal bow in wintertime is like a heat sink on your hands; it kind of sucks for wintertime hunting.
• Longbow limbs (even R/D designs) would be preferable to recurve limbs because I don't like getting grass/twigs pinched between my string and limb belly when hunting.  Recurves are great, especially for target work, but as a hunting bow I have come to prefer longbows.

With these goals in mind, what are some options for a solid place to start on a nice traditional bow to meet these needs.  Lower cost components will be preferable to expensive ones but I don't necessarily mind spending a little cash on this along the way to get something that will work very well for these needs.  With regards to costs I am especially going to be cost conscious about limb sets as I will have several along the way that are just training wheels between where I am now and where I will wind up as an end goal.  I have no preference for new vs used.  If used saves coin, I'll do it in a heartbeat but only if I am actually getting what I need.

What are some recommendations for places to start looking at equipment to fill this need?

[Blessed One]

I have a Northern Mist Skanee on order and Have heard nothing but great things about it, and it seems to fit everything described. Steve shoots 102# bow so I know he can build you whatever pound limbs you want.

http://www.northernmistlongbows.com/bows/takedown-longbows/skanee-longbow/

[McDave]

I don't believe you're going to find any high production bows in the weight range you want, so your options are to buy used or to buy a riser and have limbs custom built as you move up in weight.  Buying new is going to be expensive, once you get past the first set of limbs.

Buying used, however, other people's loss may be your gain.  With most people wanting to go down in weight, it is often possible to find good deals in the 60# and over range, although you rarely see bows for sale in the 90# and over range, so that might take a while.  I think the most cost effective way you could accomplish your objective would be to trade from bow to bow, as you increase your strength, rather than adding limbs to a riser you already have.  Since you're buying used and selling used, you really shouldn't be out of pocket for more than the cost of one bow at any given time.  Of course, if you really like a particular bow, you could hold on to it, if you wanted to, which would be a deviation from the plan you could decide on at the time.

[Blessed One]

I forgot to mention an extra set of limbs after the initial cost will be $400.

[Gdpolk]

I don't believe you're going to find any high production bows in the weight range you want, so your options are to buy used or to buy a riser and have limbs custom built as you move up in weight.  Buying new is going to be expensive, once you get past the first set of limbs.

Buying used, however, other people's loss may be your gain.  With most people wanting to go down in weight, it is often possible to find good deals in the 60# and over range, although you rarely see bows for sale in the 90# and over range, so that might take a while.  I think the most cost effective way you could accomplish your objective would be to trade from bow to bow, as you increase your strength, rather than adding limbs to a riser you already have.  Since you're buying used and selling used, you really shouldn't be out of pocket for more than the cost of one bow at any given time.  Of course, if you really like a particular bow, you could hold on to it, if you wanted to, which would be a deviation from the plan you could decide on at the time.

This is kind of what I was afraid of.  I'm kind of looking for a unicorn of sorts here.  I'm not familiar with a lot of the options other than I know I could contact any given bowyer and have them send me a 3 piece with say a 70, 85, and 100 lb limb set to start with but then your likely looking at quite a bit of coin at $300-500 per set of limbs and I may be money out ahead to just buy and sell a bunch of used, high weight bows.  The problem with buying/selling a bunch of used bows as I go up in weight for my hunting goals is both finding and selling them will take time and I likely will have difficulty finding a riser with a grip to suit my needs with so few that are actually in the 60lb+ range on the market.  Also, I'm not sure how many bowyers will want to do wooden 3-piece bows with that heavy of a limb.  It's going to put a lot of stress into a very small area around the bolt bushings and I'm not sure that a take down with a wood riser is really going to be the best options at said bow weights.

That said, lets switch gears and come to the realization that with my goals, I am going to need an atypical setup.  That means custom which means expensive.  That's fine if there's not an affordable and existing product line already out there which can easily meet my needs, which I wasn't aware of and apparently nobody else is either.  This is going to take some consideration and money, which is fine.  If I can make this into a metal riser with ILF limbs, I would like to do so as I think the metal will be a little stronger for the build and ILF will give me options to swap limbs easily but also maybe keep the bow running as I age and drop down in weight.  This brings me to some new questions:

• Is the design of the ILF limb mounting system strong enough that limbs of these weights will not crack at the mounting points?
• Who is making custom ILF limbs in heavier weights by request?
• Who is making some quality ILF metal risers?  Are these available with wooden grip inserts?

[Bisch]

I can’t help you with any bow suggestions, but you have piqued my interest! What kinda critters will you be after???? You can’t leave us hanging like that!

Bisch




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[acedoc]

Sky archery ( now Belcher Bows ) has ilf bows that they can build limbs up to 100 lbs. The cost as already brought out will be substantial.
That said they are metal riser bows with all the bells and whistles.
Lot of grip options are available for ilf risers.
I think that a tradtech titan 17 riser with max 5 limbs by Morrison would be the fastest and might give you good performance even at lower draw weights (low for you). The sky limbs are a bit slower and much more affordable.  There is comparo of all ilf limbs available on the net.

I dare say you are headed for a huge expense. Limb changes will necessitate arrow spine changes , the heavier arrow spines are not cheap esp if you are looking at longer draw lengths,  broadheads will be another bugbear - the ones that hold up to very large tough game do cost an arm and a leg.if I was you I would get one setup I can hold and shoot well and tune it for uefoc like oz Clint has. That way you are relatively future proof limb wise and have decent punch for almost any critters.


That aside like Bisch said - what are you after specifically?

[acedoc]

Other metal riser options are by - Morrison archery, Border, VAP archery and tradtech. You can also find some others by doing search.
I went with sky and am happy with the setup. They are decent folk to work with and Mr Belcher has plenty of knowledge.

[Gdpolk]

I can’t help you with any bow suggestions, but you have piqued my interest! What kinda critters will you be after???? You can’t leave us hanging like that!

Bisch

It’s going to start with American alligator. After talking to Jerry Russell a bit I get the impression that my 55lb bow would be adequate but on the bottom end of acceptable power for this hunt. I don’t want to be on the bottom end of power for any animal that I hunt. I expect it to take 2-3 years to get enough points to draw a tag in Georgia for this hunt which is plenty of time to train.

After that two other bucket list animals for me are American bison. There is an Indian reserve that my friend Dan has found that will allow hunters to pursue a couple of these a year as a quota hunt.

Following this, I would like to go to Alaska and chase moose and grizzly. This has been a dream hunt since I was a kid in middle school. I used to dream of doing it with a high end custom built 300 win mag but these days a bow sounds more appealing.

For my more typical local hunting of squirrel, rabbit, feral pig, whitetail, elk, and fur bearers my Sarells with a well built arrow has always been more than enough for consistent pass throughs. However some of these animals have armor plated hides, THICK and tough fur, deep fat reserves/shields, and are substantially larger animals.

With two-three years to go before the gator hunt I can easily get in better shape to dramatically increase my draw weight. My goal is to get it as high as I can before that hunt. I’ll likely only buy 3 or so practice arrows with field points for each set of limbs along the way to use as training tools until I top out on draw weight. Then I’ll build up a good dozen of well tuned, ultra high FOC, reinforced arrows with some bomb proof heads.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Ray Lyon]

75# would be plenty for anything you have listed.  If you can draw that now, get something used in that weight and spend the next two years getting it perfect and forget anything above that.

[Krex1010]

My comment is more a question about this topic than it is a statement....isn’t there a point where the returns on going up in draw weight diminish to the point of not really being worth the costs? I totally get wanting to shoot more than 55# for large, heavy game animals. However, once a suitable arrow setup is determined, isn’t there a point where the gains in speed and trajectory would only be realized at distances further than you are comfortable shooting? Again, I’m asking a question not judging the OP in any way.

[Biathlonman]

Maybe learn to build your own limbs?

[McDave]

75# would be plenty for anything you have listed.  If you can draw that now, get something used in that weight and spend the next two years getting it perfect and forget anything above that.

My comment is more a question about this topic than it is a statement....isn’t there a point where the returns on going up in draw weight diminish to the point of not really being worth the costs? I totally get wanting to shoot more than 55# for large, heavy game animals. However, once a suitable arrow setup is determined, isn’t there a point where the gains in speed and trajectory would only be realized at distances further than you are comfortable shooting? Again, I’m asking a question not judging the OP in any way.

I agree with Ray's observation. 

My response to Krex's question is that there is no point where the returns of increasing draw weight diminish to zero.  While there may be a point where further increases in bow weight do not result in much increase in arrow velocity, when matched with proportionate increases in arrow weight, they always result in a meaningful increase in energy.  If we could find a mythical Hercules who could pull a 500# bow, I guarantee he would achieve greater penetration in Godzilla than a 400# bow would.

More realistic examples of this occur with the English and Welsh bowmen of the Middle Ages.  They pulled bows in the 100# range because they needed them to penetrate French armor at 200 yards.  Nothing less would do the job.  Howard Hill commonly hunted with 90#+ bows.  Maybe he didn't need that much, but he liked them and they certainly did the job for him.

While I agree with Ray, because I believe with modern equipment we can do as much at 75# as Howard could at 90# (assuming anyone could be found who could shoot a modern 75# bow as well Hill could shoot his 90# bow, which is a big if), and because I believe there are higher risks of injuries with higher bow weights, I wouldn't give that advice myself, because Polk needs to follow his own dreams and aspirations.  And, I believe Hill managed to retire with his shoulders intact, so while it isn't anything I would try, obviously it can be pulled off.

[McDave]

Double post, sorry

[Gdpolk]

I'm certain that there is a point where increased weight isn't going to functionally increase my maximum range because there will be limitations to my skill as an archer.  However, increased weight means increased energy which translates to more energy for penetration on large, dangerous, and tough game.

I don't know if I will actually reach 100-120lbs and be able to maintain accuracy, but that is the goal.  I used to lift weights 5 days a week when I was more involved in sports and despite never taking suppliments was able to lift as much or nearly as much as most linemen on the football team despite being below 150lbs and very lean.  I've never been able to bulk up with strength, but do get pretty clear definition when I am working out.  I haven't lifted in several years because I had no reason to post graduation. 

Now that I'm wanting to pursue larger and potentially dangerous game I like the idea of bringing as much bow as I can to increase my likelihood of a complete pass through as high as humanly possible on these larger animals.  While my current bow pulls 53.5lbs at my 29.5", I am quite comfortable shooting a 60-65lb bow a few dozen times and can hold one for over 30sec at full draw and still make aimed shots.  I've never tried heavier than that because I just haven't had access to heavier than that locally.  I've also never owned one that heavy because I didn't want to build a pile of extra arrows for a heavier bow that just wasn't even close to needed for whitetail, small pigs, and small game.  Now I'm looking at potentially/probably needing a little more oomph so I'm chasing as much as I can comfortably control as an archer with my next big/dangerous game hunt being 2-3 years out so I have plenty of time to get in better shape.

[Gdpolk]

Maybe learn to build your own limbs?

No disrespect meant, but that simply isn't happening.  I work full time at my "real job", have a family, and have a small hobby knife making shop.  I can't justify adding another hobby to the list on the time front.  I'm ok just paying what I need to for gear to make my dreams come true.  I do not desire to waste money or have all super ornate, high end, pride of ownership type of gear but to me the cost of well made gear is well worth the investment.  I shop price conscious but sometimes you just got to pay up.