Penetration on bear

[frassettor]

I'm shooting a 64 inch BW PMAV Recurve 54@28. Im shooting a 2117 with a 145 tip and cut to 29 inches and weighs in at 545. Do you think that will be enough to go through a black bear at 20 yards. I ordered  some arrows through 3 rivers fri, and the gentleman said if I wanted to go a little heavier I should try their weight tubes. He said they wont change the spine at all. So I told him to send the 5 gr per inch tubes, I figure that will put me at around 675. Is that to much?

[Charlie Lamb]

While 675 is not too much there is nothing wrong with 545 from your bow... it'll zip right through a bear.

[Huntrdfk]

What Charlie said.......


David

[frassettor]

Do you guys think that while I have been shooting the 545 for so long, that ounce I go to the heavier stuff there will be a big learning curve again?

[FerretWYO]

A learning curve from going to a heavier arrow is for sure. though it should not be to severe. I have taken three bears one with a 57lbs pronghorn and two with a 57lbs palmer both shooting 440grn gold tip trad5575 and had complete pass thrus every time. At 545 I would not change a thing.

[doug77]

Richard last spring I shot a black bear quarting away complete pass through using a 565 grain arrow/ broadhead  with a 48# BW PSR. you will be OK

doug77

[tippit]

Penetration shouldn't be issue if you let the bear move his front leg forward on the side you are shooting.  After doing bear-topsy at camp on all the bears brought in, I feel the best shot is broadside not quartering away like on a deer.  Their chest has wide ribs and narrows going forward like a cone.  Thus if arrow comes from the rear, it has more chance of skipping back out rather than penetrating....that comes from knowing the anatomy and skinning more than 40 bears.  You want the front leg moving forward to avoid the shoulder (Bear top/Deer bottom)

 

Heck this Woody stone point was a complete pass thru from a less than 50# selfbow...Doc

 

[woodchucker]

Osage Selfbows and Stone Points.....on CARBON ARROWS!!!!!    :eek:  

Geez Doc.....What are we gonna do with you?????    

(Next you'll probly be shooting plastic "feathers")   :rolleyes:

[woodchucker]

Honestly.....I don't think there is anyone here who knows more about animal anatomy than Doc does.

If he says it,consider it gospel.    

[Pops]

My last bear was with a Bob Lee 51lb. Arrow wt. was 545 and had a 2 blade Magnus. Arrow went right thru the bear and stuck in a log. The bear was about 300lbs.

[Dave Huff]

I was worried about the same thing. I normally shoot an arrow between 525 to 550 grains for 3D and feel comfortable with it. The guide I'm using on my upcoming fall hunt shy'd me away from using that light of an arrow.  So I went to the max on my CX Heritages and they top at 850 grains. They are dead nuts on at 20 yards, so no learning curve but now after reading all of this I think it's overkill.

[mbbushman]

I've taken two bears with trad gear. The first was with a 60 lb Caribow recurve, and 575 gr. arrows. The first arrow severed the spine completely, second arrow went through the center of the near shoulder blade, nicked the bottom of the spine and was sticking 4 inches through the top half of the offside shoulder blade.
   The second  was shot with a 49 lb Caribow Silver Fox longbow, using 700 gr arrows.  I got a complete passthrough, even though I caught the edge of the offside shoulder blade.
I don't think that a bear needs any more killing power than you would need on a deer.

[tippit]

woodchucker,
It's Not carbon...one of Ted Fry's footed wood arrows with black shaft and Woody Blackwell's stone point plus my selfbow.  That's after it went thru the bear.  :D  Doc

 

[woodchucker]

THANK GOD DOC!!!!!!!!!! You had me worried there for a minute.....  

[bowdude]

Tippit, what do you think when the bear is laying down broadside and then reaches forward with the near leg?   I shot one like this once and hit what I thought was a perfect spot.  As he stood to run off my arrow moved up and forward.  Yep got the s. blade and never found the bear.  Only about 2 inches of penetration.  4 blade Hoyt Top Cut I think is what they call them.  I won't shoot one laying down broadside again!   Course he didn't move fast from that position.

[JC]

Steven, exact same thing happened to me on my first bear of the trip....cept mine penetrated through with 9" of shaft out the other side. Lots of blood the first 20 yards...then 400 yards following a trail that was a drop here and there at best. Apparently, after autopsies on other bears, Doc said the loose coat and the angle of the bear caused the shot to possibly skip off the shoulder blade...loooking good from the angle it was originally, but nowhere near far enough down in the body for proper shot placement. 2nd bear however was shot while walking and went about 10 yards before dying.

Richard, My setup was 64@27 Morrison recurve, Pearson Deadhead, 580gr total Arrow weight, 185fps...4" of dirt on the other side (on the "good" shot), traveled maybe 5-7 yards. I have a theory (and it's worth about $.02 since I've only killed one bear), but I think bears die very easily when compared to deer or other animals that are typically "prey". I don't think a bear really knows how to instinctively handle  something killing it.

The main thing is, shoot low in the cavity...it's a surprisingly small area. Here's some autopsy pics Ray took of my bear while Tippit and I worked on it:

 

 

 

[Charlie Lamb]

In my early days of bear hunting an old guide told me, "shoot 'em good and they don't go anywhere. Shoot 'em bad and you'll never see them again."

Having been involved in more tracking jobs on bears than I can now remember, I can say that I believe he was exactly right!

[wingnut]

Good on a bear is the same as good on a pig.  The target is between the elbows and is about the size of a football.  Tuck it tight to the shoulder and low.  Be careful of the long hair on the chest when figuring low.  Rusty had a chance at a bear in Idaho a couple years back.  Only he put it low through the hair.  LOL

Mike

[Bill Carlsen]

My wife got a pass thru on her first bear with a 500 grain Beman carbon shot from a 46# recurve and a four blade Phantom head. The bear was down in 30 yards or so.

[Biggie Hoffman]

The only thing softer than a bear is maybe a caribou. Penetration is rarely an issue so it's good to use big heads.

One thing to remember, if he's sitting down and you shoot him tight behind the front leg you're gonna be too far back.