Finishing and sealing a U Finish bow?

[A_Locomotive]

Hi. I recently picked up a #50 u finish Hungarian bow from Atilla Archery. It is a glass backed ash and bamboo bow. I am having trouble determining how best to finish and seal the bow so wanted to asked a few questions and i am also open to suggestions. Ideally I should probably just buy different products and experiment, but I don't have a huge budget and would rather not be super wasteful buying products that I'll never use again. I am still not 100% sure of the colors or tones i want to stain it but right now i am semi commited to a water based minwax stain i picked up. Its their green tea color. Looks nice in photos bit I have nor tested it so not sure what to expect. I was hoping I could maybe use it on the bamboo that edges the back of the siyahs top and bottom of the handle and edge of the limbs. I was thinking i might try masking it off and seeing if that would work to prevent the stain from creeping I to the ash handle. The siyahs shouldnt be an issue since their is a layer of fiberglass between the woods that i plan on covering anyway. How feesible is making wood for staining?

Now for the grip and siyahs I am unsure what I want. I was thinking either one of minwaxes oil based stains(I have two colors I picked up but havent opened so can still be returned) or perhaps using a rub in oil finish like tung or teak oil. I like the way these oils look in photos but dont know which is more appropriate for a bow. I am also wondering if there would be any issues with the final sealer i want to use. Was thinking i would seal the whole thing with waterbased wipe on poly, would this adhere propely over the ring/teak/oil based stain if i weny that route? Or would i be better off just going 100% water based?

My last question is in regard to thd fiberglass on the limbs themselves. Would any of the above products if applied to the fiberglass have any negative effects from solvents or discoloration? Ideally I'd actually like the fiberglass to havea greenish hue to go with the bamboo, would the water based stain impart any color to the fiberglass or will it just wipe off clean? The fiberglass isnt mirror smooth it was sanded by the bower along with all the other surfaces.

Sorry this was so long winded, i did my best to make it concise, i have never finished a bow or done any sort of wood work so this is all new to me. Any and all tips or suggestions are more then welcome!

[Forwardhandle]

Glad you found your way over here Bret , this site is more geared for what your asking these guys will help you out !

[Forwardhandle]

Can you post a pic ?

[A_Locomotive]

Yes. Here you go. I actually tried when I initially posted and a few times after but it kept failing to upload for some reason.

[Forwardhandle]

That's a sweet looking bow I like it ,I don't know about staining glass I don't think it will work maybe somebody will chime in on that , I have used leather dye on wood that works well , I have some spray dark toner that I'm going to try on bamboo soon , but for me stains are hard to border they seem to go where the want to !

[A_Locomotive]

I did a quick experiement this morning with masking out a square and staining it with the green stain I bought. It worked on the sides that were parallel with the grain and just went right under tape that was perpendicular. So I think with very careful masking i should be able to do the bamboo first since its grain is all nice and straight. Need to get a piece of bamboo to test the stain on as i have zero idea how how or even if it will work on the bamboo.

[Flem]

I can't imagine the glass is going to take any oil stain, or any other stain. You could get some color on top of it with a toner added to your finish, or like Yellowwood suggested, a rattle can toner.

[KenH]

Atilla makes some great U-Finish bows.  I have his Scythian. 

Stain will not adhere to the fiberglass -- well maybe just enough to make a mess.  As your test told you, stains run under tape or at best make a really fuzzy edge.  Multiple stains and stains of different kinds do not usually work well together -- especially if you're moving into colors rather than wood tones.  Best way to apply color to a project like this -- IMHO -- is with embroidery thread spiral wraps glued to the bow.

[A_Locomotive]

I definitely want to add a little unnatural color to the bow ideally by staining the wood. Maybe instead of making though I can use the water based stain 100% on the handle and limb edges rather then limit it to the bamboo. The siyahs would be extremely easy to mask off and do separately in a more natural finish. Of the oils which would you say offers the best protections to the wood and color? And if I used an oil wpuld I still be able to ise my wipe on poly if I gave it plenty of time to soak in and evaporate? And also in regard to the wipe on poly would it be able to go on the fiberglass as well of would i need to be careful and only apply it to the wood? And if so what is recommeded for finishing the fiberglass? Also in regard to the fiberglass could i get more info on these toners? Would be real cool to tint the belly of the bow a darker color to sort of mimic the look of a composite bow.

[KenH]

Poly over ANY kind of oil finish (like Tung Oil) isn't going to work -- oils never really dry.   Stains are not oils, they're usually alcohol-based.    Wipe on poly will go over both wood and fiberglass with no problem.

[A_Locomotive]

Hmm i didnt think the tung oil and teak oils sold at home depot were true oils. From what i read i got the impression they were more like a varnish meant to mimic the appearance of true tung oil and such.   

[pditto613]

You might want to try gel stains.  They are alcohol based and will stain about anything.  Don’t let it sit to long. Wipe it on and wipe it off.   Then do it again if you want it darker.

[A_Locomotive]

Decided to just go for it. I figured worst case scenario i'd pick up a tin of ebony stain and just make it black. My masking actually worked perfectly until i realized I had some how managed to get a drop of stain right of the tip of the siyah, the only part i didnt mask. Haha so all green. Not quite sure what i think. I kind of like it, its very different but part of me think i should have just gone natural colors but whatever, commited now, so time to make the best of it!

I'm going to leave the glass back and belly alone, they actually held the stain that got sloped on surprisingly well but a test i did before hand on a part i planned to wrap later. I discovered it could be scrubbed off with a magic eraser with a little effort. That said i am going to definitely darken the siyahs, the tin of jacobean I got i think would look good, add much needed constrast to the very light wood under the glass.

The bamboo didnt take the stain even remotely like I was expecting. I split a piece i had in the garage to test how it took stain and my test piece looked amazing, but I am thinking the edges if the limbs might not have been completely bare bamboo, maybe they had a bit of fiberglass or glue in the grain. There were a few spots on the ash like this as well. So some areas on thr bamboo are deep green, other almost look like i didnt even apply stain.

I will definitely need to sand the bow again it came sanded but i didnt really think about the grain raising from the water. I'd read about raising the grain but didnt really know what to expect. It definitly was more dramatic then i expected.

I am rethinking my WB poly. I might save that for for a table i want to look into refinishing. I kind of think i need something that is going to have some ambering to it. I think it would benefit the green tone to have the top coat not be totally clear with a nice gloss. Any suggestions?

[A_Locomotive]

Okay so took some sand paper to the bow to take care of the raised fibers
 Took it down till it was smooth again and to reapply thd stain. But with the results I got I might not do that. The stain didnt penetrate super deep so some of the green came off, once this happened I repeated this all over the bow so it would take the restai. Evenly. I am going to do an experiment with the oak i am testing stain with. I am going ti sand it down as i did with the bow and try applying my three different stains to it to see what happens. The grip I might just leave alone or stain with my lighter tinted stain just to add something a little extra.

[Pat B]

She's looking good. Can we see a braced and full draw pic?

[Forwardhandle]

I'm really liking the green has a nice earth tone color to it 

[A_Locomotive]

Sorry been busy the last week. Was at San Diego Comic Con. Will get a braced and full draw photo later. Playing around with my two other stains to see hoe they will look over the green tea. The puritan pine(left) looks good in one goat but i think it will not add enough contrast wjth the very light back and belly of the bow. The jacobean on the other hand definitely will give me what I am after contrast wise but it simultaniously seems to have both left too much of the green and not hidden it enough. Both I think would have looked good either just erasing it completely or letting the deeper open grains retain the beatiful pop of green and tinting the tighter grained portion of the wood. The later effect I think i am going to attempt. One portion of my started jacobean stain i am going to let sit for a few days then try a few more coats of the green to see what happens. Even still if my experiments dont yield results i like, what i got in this test does have one very interesting aspect to it. In shade you cant really see thr green under the jacobean, but it pops out in the sun which could be a real interesting look.

[A_Locomotive]

Little update. I think I am calling the staining good. Not 100% sure, i might try one more coat of the puritan pine on the handle after it has dried for a day, i'd like ir a hair darker but it didnt seem to take amy more stain when I did the second coat after the recommend drying time. Siyahs definitely arent getting a darker coat i liks them where they are(thought i think i should have just left them green with the light stain ans used the dark on the handle but oh well i still like it. Undecided but might do a single quick wipe over the siyahs with the green. I like how it worked on my test piece of wood but this ash wood definitely takes stains differently then the oak, or maybe a wipe of the jacobean over the handle without letting it sit and penetrate. Or probably best just leave it alone since it seems like every decision I have made i look back and think oops.  Ha ha

[A_Locomotive]

Here it is strung. I'll try and get a full draw photo soon. Havent had much much luck with timing to have someone take a photo for me.

[A_Locomotive]

I am still debating if and how i want to wrap the grip but otherwise I think I am done! Did the last coat of poly early yesterday morning and just now finished wrapping the limb/siyah joints with multicolored hemp. I was initially not happy with with the hemp after I had wrapped it. It's original color was a little lighter then i thought and didnt match very well. But figured I can cut it off and re tire it later. But as luck would have it the only piece of leather i had to rub in the wax i put on the hemp was dyed orange and the color actually rubbed into the hemp and made it match perfectly! It was par for the course with this whole project. Haha it seems like every choice i made ended up initially looking bad but working out in the end. Also here is finally a photo of it at full draw well at least for three finger. Didnt want to try a full thumb draw yet until I have a chancr to shoot it enough to get used to the draw weight.


This is what the hemp looked like before i burned in the wax with the orange orange leather