Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails

[Trumpkin the Dwarf]

Chuck Jones! That's a cool arrowhead! Might I posit that the single bevel was easier to form with sticks and stones on those old arrowheads?

Overall I think some fellows on here are getting too worked up about this, without reading what I actually posted to kick this thread off. I want to reiterate my intentions, and then I'm done with this thread. It is probably about time for it to die before someone gets offended.

My intended message was pretty dang simple,

Narrow single bevel heads work well at certain things. They are actually great at certain jobs!

However, they will never cut as much tissue, or spill as much blood as a big broadhead placed in the same spot if they both make 2 holes.

So please don't insist they are the ONLY ethical option, when a newcomer to the sport asks for a broadhead recommendation. Guys who intend to hunt whitetail, and are shooting 50-60 pounds with heavy arrows, need to know that other options exist. Options that CAN yield better, shorter blood trails, assuming they shoot the deer where they should.

[SwampRabbit]

Interesting discussion. I started with Zwickey 2 blade and recently switched to Simmons Tiger Sharks.

I had pretty good success with the former but really do like the latter better. Busted out the calipers to check the width. The sharks are 1 5/8"... which is wider than I thought. The zwicks ranged from 1 3/16 to 1 3/8. The main difference being from how much I had to file.

In the short time I have used the sharks... I will say I have had one great blood trail and one so/so on hogs. On Javis... the blood trails were terrible, but you dont always need a dog or an awesome blood trail to find a critter. Obviously it helps though. Jury is still out, but I am feeling more optimistic about thier durability.

As for double vs single bevel. I dont have much experience with single... but I don't see how it slices better... split yes, slice same.

What would be an interesting topic is serrated (ie buzzcuts).

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[Terry Green]

I shoot a hybrid longbow with carbon arrows that weigh about 600-650 grains.  I prefer the Abowyer Wapiti single bevel head which is 1 1/4" in width.  My longbows range from about 52-57# in draw weight.  I normally get complete penetration or passthroughs with this setup.  Blood trails tend to be very heavy.  While it is subjective, I do think I get much better blood trails than when I used Zwickey Delta 2 blades.

Several previous posters emphatically stated that 1 1/8" wide broadheads did not, in their opinion, give adequate blood trails.  Say what you want but you are basically stating that you think the broadhead is "too skinny" because then you go on to say that a wider 2 blade works just fine.  Myself and quite a few other experienced hunters disagree with that assessment.  While the wider broadhead will cut more tissue, the 1 1/8" wide broadhead will do just fine if you place a properly sharpened arrow in the right spot.  And the blood trail will be good as well.  That is all I am trying to say.

John, can you answer the 2nd question I asked, and now I ask this as well....do you have any pics?....and I hope that 2nd paragraph was't directed at me. cause I think that was my 1st post on this thread.

Thanks.....

[2madjacks]

Lol...   Come on October!!   

[JohnV]

Hi Terry, none of my comments were directed at you or because of anything that you said.  My comments reflect my frustrations with how many bowhunters want to dismiss single bevel broadheads, EFOC, and some other stuff as gimmics and advertising hype.  Double bevel heads work just fine...I just happen to think single bevel heads perform better based on my own personal observations.

I assume you are asking if I have any good pictures of single bevel heads busting through a scapula.  Answer is no.  I only take the typical hero pictures which are cleaned up with arrow removed and excess blood cleaned up.  I don't have an exact count but would estimate that I have killed somewhere around 5 deer where my arrow caught the back half of the scapula and managed to break through.

[pavan]

A scapula hit on level ground with a right angle deer is not exactly in the bread box.  In the case with my wife it was an uphill shot going away.  She was convinced that she hit way forward.  I have had similar bone contact on deer going away, but my bows were on the heavy side and never gave it much thought other than the shoulder meat that got mess up.  I have been around the public woods when tree stand hunters had high shoulder hits bad penetration hits and could not find their deer. I always asked if the deer was angling toward them.   I may be wrong, but I have not given much thought to how hard a scapula is to penetrate on a white deer, it has not seemed to be an issue with our group. It does not happen very often.

[amicus]

Chuck Jones! That's a cool arrowhead! Might I posit that the single bevel was easier to form with sticks and stones on those old arrowheads?

Overall I think some fellows on here are getting too worked up about this, without reading what I actually posted to kick this thread off. I want to reiterate my intentions, and then I'm done with this thread. It is probably about time for it to die before someone gets offended.

My intended message was pretty dang simple,

Narrow single bevel heads work well at certain things. They are actually great at certain jobs!

However, they will never cut as much tissue, or spill as much blood as a big broadhead placed in the same spot if they both make 2 holes.

So please don't insist they are the ONLY ethical option, when a newcomer to the sport asks for a broadhead recommendation. Guys who intend to hunt whitetail, and are shooting 50-60 pounds with heavy arrows, need to know that other options exist. Options that CAN yield better, shorter blood trails, assuming they shoot the deer where they should.

Nobody has insisted that s/b are the only ethical option. You made that up. Might want to tell somebody like Mike Mitten what other better options are out there than what he is using.

The fact is that s/b broad heads are a very lethal/deadly broad head in all hunting situations. I use single bevel grizzlys in all my hunts and have been doing so for years. I use them because I like them. They cause major internal damage and most important I can get them very sharp. I ve seen and experienced what they can do to a shoulder socket and to bone. I posted pics in and earlier post. No broad head will guarantee a good blood trail, that's a fact. Even gun shot animals may not produce a good blood trail. If you have hunted long enough you would know that. Use what you like and as long as u put them where they should go you will get a kill.

[Walt Francis]

It must be August 🤓

My thoughts regarding the importance of arrow flight were expressed earlier.  My thoughts regarding broadheads, as stated by others, is to use the one you are most confident in.....You will place it where it needs to go more often. 

“Dead is dead, the critter don’t much care what made him that way”

Tim Ott

[pavan]

The last deer I shot with a worn down Schulz HH.  My first shot went off of a dead hanging branch, I cannot believe that I didn't see it as I moved with the deer.  The arrow made a weird, 'vooink' sound as it skidded off of the stick.  The buck took a couple of big quick jumps and then said, "Wait, I am a horny young buck, time to do horny young buck stuff."  The arrow went catty corner through like he wasn't there.  There must have been blood on the ground, but i never checked. He went down in a second or two.  The arrow got ate up by switch grass never to be seen again.  The old 'what if' questions come up with threads like this.  How many of your hits are marginal and how many are perfect?  Then the question is, what works better on the marginal hits?

[Trumpkin the Dwarf]

Nobody has insisted that s/b are the only ethical option. You made that up. Might want to tell somebody like Mike Mitten what other better options are out there than what he is using.

The fact is that s/b broad heads are a very lethal/deadly broad head in all hunting situations. I use single bevel grizzlys in all my hunts and have been doing so for years. I use them because I like them. They cause major internal damage and most important I can get them very sharp. I ve seen and experienced what they can do to a shoulder socket and to bone. I posted pics in and earlier post. No broad head will guarantee a good blood trail, that's a fact. Even gun shot animals may not produce a good blood trail. If you have hunted long enough you would know that. Use what you like and as long as u put them where they should go you will get a kill.

Hey Amicus, it sounds as though you've misheard me. You will never hear me say that single bevel heads are not deadly. You are even partially correct in saying "Nobody has insisted that s/b are the only ethical option". No one in this thread has done that. However, the initial post stated that I am seeing this particular troubling trend across many social media groups discussing traditional archery. I have literally heard people say that single bevel heads cause MORE bleeding than double bevel heads. Full stop. No qualifications. There is hype around single bevels right now. With hype comes half truths and unintended falsehoods.

Please, don't take this thread as a personal attack. I was addressing a group mentality, not pointing fingers at people who make a well informed decision to use a certain broadhead. In fact, that's the entirety of my case. Trad folks with experience need to give newcomers the tools to make an informed choice on equipment.

 

[amicus]

Your last 3 paragraphs of the post I quoted was pretty clear. You seem to think s/b are only good for certain hunting situations. You also implied that someone was insisting that s/b was the only ethical broadhed. Not true on this thread. If your not using s/b broad heads than why even start this thread?

[pdk25]

Relax.  Nothing in his last 3 paragraphs wasmhm incorrect.  No point in taking it personally.

[Trumpkin the Dwarf]

Amicus, I see you're in Texas. Close to Austin perchance? Maybe we should get a beer and work this out over a good brew?

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. But I don't really want to go round in endless circles online, and get all of our hunting deprived companions up in arms in the process.

I haven't meant to insult or offend anyone, and if anyone is miffed at me (and close enough to do so) I will buy them a beer and hash it out in person.

[amicus]

Malachi

I would be glad to have a beer with u. I'm not taking anything personal. Just felt that there was things that needed to be addressed. If I misunderstood, I apologize.

Have a great hunting season.

[Trumpkin the Dwarf]

Amicus, we're all good then! Good luck to you as well this season. And PM me if you're ever my way and want that beer.

[Don Stokes]

I've used most every type of broadhead, and it's obvious to me that sharpness and where the animal is hit are the only consistent factors in blood trails and recovery. A deer's body is going to affect the arrow differently from every angle because it's not homogeneous, so it's a poor medium for making meaningful comparisons. I've had good and bad blood trails from Grizzlys to inch-and-a-half three blades. I've been away from this forum for several years, and it's amazing that this discussion is still going. They all work, and you just gotta hit 'em in the right place with enough moxie to punch through. I shot a 43# high-energy recurve for much of the last 3 seasons, using a 1" 3 blade, and it did just fine on several deer. For several years before that I shot a 51# recurve or my 60# Torges longbow with big Snuffers, my favorite head. I believe I get more blood with the 3 blade heads, and being a bit colorblind I need as much as possible! I can't say that the deer have gone down faster than the ones I've shot with Grizzlys and Zwickeys and MA2s and such, though. My wood arrows for the lighter bow are around 575 grains, and the heavier bows are 625-725 grains. I think arrow weight is every bit as important as broadhead type in getting that blood out. Six weeks until the season opens here, and I got a good buck on the camera in the woods behind my house today!

[Terry Green]

No worries about offending someone I haven't seen any of that really at all. I've seen so far is good clean discussion of respectful men.   This Thread is a testimony to the countenance of Tradgang and the members.

I had a post written and I thought I hit post but evidently I didn't.  I will check my computer in the morning to see what happened and I'll get it posted.

Many thanks guys for keeping it respectable and not letting this thread get broadside.

[pavan]

I have a set of Acme cedars with those really cheap 190 grain Ribtecs on them.  They take a beautiful edge.  Will they work with a 55@26" longbow for a really big Iowa buck?  He's back, all 12 points of him.  I have given out some of the 140 Ribtecs to other guys and those did a marvelous job for them, but it worked out, as i suspected, that due to the Ribtec design that they will try to rotate a little in the deer, so I gave those arrows out with right wing fletching.  I wonder how much can be gained if the edge is leaning into their natural partial rotation when going through a deer.

[two4hooking]

I'm going to show you how those 190 ribteks work on Idaho elk here in a few months..  Have them mounted on 460 grain boo arrows for a total weight of 650.  Shooting [email protected].  I am confident they will do the job...rotation be damned.

[Roger Norris]

I have killed a bunch of deer with Tuff Heads. Great heads, durable, easy to sharpen. They penetrate awesome, fly great. I haven't noticed any less blood trail than with my other favorite, Ace.

You certainly don't NEED them, but they are great heads.