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Author Topic: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails  (Read 34797 times)

Offline TexasKing

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2018, 09:24:02 AM »
Heresy, absolute heresy

You have to have a single bevel and 30% FOC or you will only wound a critter.
Anyone could have told you that! 

Offline Dave Lay

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2018, 09:33:43 AM »
I’ve never tried a single bevel , just never really saw a need when my double bevel zwickey and  magnus heads did fine in the penetration department and I never believed in the more blood from what would be a narrower head even though the spin is supposed to create a bigger wound channel but how much spin will a head do in a 14” wide deer ? I’ll probably never hunt anything bigger than elk and I shoot mid to upper 50’s in bow weight with a 600 grain arrow..
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Offline last arrow

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2018, 09:54:50 AM »
With one exception, all the deer I have killed has been with a zwickey eskimo or a grizzly head.  I have used the zwikeys since the late 70's and the grizzlys since the late 80's.  Both work great and may have both in my quiver at any time.  In my experience, the zwickeys are much easier to sharpen while the grizzlys penetrate better and are more forgiving of tune and bad form, i.e., they always fly like field points.  Both produce great blood trails when properly placed.  Both produce poor blood trails when improperly placed.  I never used the zwickey deltas because I had difficulty sharpening the concave edge.

The one exception is I used some Abower brown bears for a season about 7-8 years ago.  It is a good head too.  A little wider and thicker, and definitely easier to resharpen than the grizzly, but otherwise very similar.  I would probably use these or the grizzly if I went elk hunting for the penetration benifits.

This year I plan to use zwickey no mercy heads with a single bevel that I picked up at the Kalamazoo show.  Not because I feel I need to change, but just to try the wider head.  It is about 1/4 inch wider than the grizzlys and hopefully they will be easier to file sharpen.  I have been shooting them for about a month and so far I like how they fly.   The only negative I have found is they are difficult to weight match to field points at 225 grains.


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Offline Bob Morrison

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2018, 10:30:44 AM »
This year the old Magnus the 1.5" cant remember if they are the 1 or 2. Anyway they are weighted to 300Gr. I know they work, taken lots of deer with them in the past. Over the years have played with all kinds of BHs. And they will all do the job if they are sharp and put where they need to be.

Offline IndioArcher

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2018, 10:59:56 AM »
Thanks for starting this thread, Trumpkin. I agree with your original post.

I’ve noticed no difference in blood trails between single and double bevel broadheads on whitetails. Any two blade placed high has resulted in a poor blood trail (any fixed blade really—I had a really poor blood trail from a 3 blade placed high, too) while those that were lower bled better. The only reason to shoot single bevel over double bevel is bone breaking ability, not blood trails.

If blood trail is the primary consideration, shoot a Rage. (No hate mail, please.  I don’t shoot them anymore, but they do leave a blood trail a blind man could follow). However, if penetration is key (and it usually is for Trad shooters), a two blade is best.




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Offline DarrinG

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2018, 11:16:44 AM »
I've always been a big proponent of a big wide broadhead. And a super-sharp broadhead. Put those two combinations together and you've usually got blood on the ground and a dead critter. Snuffers and Zwickey Delta heads come to mind. I'd rather hit one with a hatchet than a needle. But if you cant get them sharper than sharp, there is alternatives too. There are some wide replaceable blade heads on the market too...look at a G5 Striker Magnum. 1.5" cut that's got a decent reputation for a tough head, wicked-sharp replaceable blades. If you're a deer hunter, they are not thick-skinned, big-boned game.
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Offline pdk25

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2018, 12:27:57 PM »
I really like the results that I have been having with 1 1/4" VPA 3 blades.  They usually give a very good blood trail.  That being said, I had to pass through shots on boars in Texas using Big Jim Big 3 broadheads, with pretty good shot placement, and scant blood on the ground.    It doesn't always work out, but in general a big 3 broadhead has done a better job in regards to blood trail compared to 2 blades, although on a big boar I will still opt for a two blade given the choice.  With the amount of energy my bows generate, penetration is usually not an issue.  I think the 3 blades help keep the wound from closing up as much, especially if you only get one hole. Even a big 3 blade won't put more blood on the ground than a treeshark will.




Offline olddogrib

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2018, 12:40:19 PM »
Well if you're gonna put a stop to everyone pontificating that "my way is the best way" with little or no empirical evidence, other than they once went to a sorority mixer and spoke to Fred Bear's great niece once removed then you're going to put at least four traditional archery sites that I can think of out of business, lol!
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Online Chuck Jones

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2018, 02:27:50 PM »
I get great blood trails with Tuff Heads, mainly because they are soooo sharp.

Hit em in the right place and you can track them by “feel”.

Here is a blood trail from a tough old boar I shot this spring with a 45# Black Rhino longbow, wood arrows with 220gr.  Tuff Heads. The blood trail was spectacular! It looked like someone ran through the cactus pouring blood from a milk jug. Most importantly; the arrow penetrated completely through both sides of the chest, and 1”+ shields. I just don’t see a 3 blade doing that out of a 45# bow.

Offline Mike Yancey

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2018, 02:42:53 PM »
They all work and they all sometimes don't give the blood trail that you want. I base my opinions on past experience and have taken a ton of game with all types of heads over the years and all of them if well made and sharp as well as put in the right place kill and sometimes they just don't always bleed. I took a whitetail once from a stand, at the shot the three blade Woodsman thumped through the deer like a watermelon. Hitting mid lung on one side exiting out the bottom right at the elbow of the shoulder. With this shot and exit hole location the razor sharp three blade head sticking three inches into the ground, there wasn't a drop of blood at the shot other than on the arrow.
I called my wife on the phone to come with help and a camera because we were in for a short blood trail. I watched the deer run about twenty yards and jump a fence into a bedding area. I thought I would follow the blood trail to the fence where it crossed and wait on Lisa to get there. Well there wasn't a blood trail either, not a drop. I couldn't believe it.
We began searching in the direction it ran and soon found it about another thirty yards away. When we found it I told Lisa to wait for me at the deer while I went back and follow the blood trail from the body that I had obviously missed. I looked and looked but there wasn't a blood trail, not a drop.
Once field dressing the deer the autopsy revealed that the shot was exactly like I had thought and all the blood was in the body cavity, all of it. I would have bet that you would have been able to follow that blood trail from fifty yards away, but not the case.








On defense of single bevel two blade heads, I have been using them for the last three years. Taking elk, several wild hogs and a hand full of big game animals in Africa with them. Almost all animals were taken with sinew backed osage bows and a few were with glass backed longbows all 60 lb bows. Almost all including the elk and African animals were complete pass trough's. All also resulted in either a very short descent blood trail or falling dead in sight. In every case except one, the Gemsbok in Africa the animals were hit with perfect shot placement. So the head really didn't come into play in my thoughts. The Gemsbok however, the shot placement was perfect. Tight behind the shoulder, mid lung. BUT it centered a rib. At the shot I saw that I only got about half an arrow penetration and it was getting dark. We went back the next morning finding the animal less than eighty yards from the hit. Once skinning began we found that the arrow exactly centered one of the heavy rib bones. The heavy 850 grain arrow still had enough energy to punch through the other side, just cutting the hide on the off side and leaving a bloodshot bruise the size of a base ball on the hide. This arrow tipped with a 185 grizzly and a 200 grain woodyweight shot from a 60 lb bow was the only reason that I had enough energy to recover this animal.

 I think the main thing is to match the head to the animal you are hunting and hope for the best but prepare for the worst. SHARP and as heavy as you can shoot, both bow as well as arrow wise is the key.

 The rest is just all advertising and there is no magical broadhead that will make you kill everything that you shoot!

But also in defense of single bevel heads I have been bumping up all my arrows weight forward with the Woodyweights and will tell you that they do perform better. I even shoot my arrows with field points with them and you will notice better arrow penetration on targets, quitter bows and arrows flying like darts to the target. In Africa I went extremely heavy on arrow weight. In testing out of my 60 lb longbows, I find that there seems to be a sweet spot at around 700 to750 out to 830 grains without sacrificing speed and trajectory. For me the best mix of weight and speed with performance seemed to be 750. I only went with the extremely heavy in Africa because I knew the shots would be limited to close range and I expected big heavy boned animals. 
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 03:08:04 PM by Mike Yancey »

Offline acolobowhunter

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2018, 02:59:09 PM »
I am off to Africa in a week and taking my usual Zwikee double bevel heads that I have shot for years.  I am also going to try the single bevel Rocky Mountain Cutthroat 200 gr.  They fly just as good as my Zwikee's.  Will be interesting to see the results.  I plan on using both heads on different animals.  Both are very sharp, but I think the biggest concern will be the operator behind the bow and placing the shots where they need to be.

Offline newhouse114

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2018, 03:07:55 PM »
Everything varies from occasion to occasion. I've killed deer and elk with Eskimos and Delta's with virtually zero blood on the ground. Generally speaking, I have gotten better blood trails with a single bevel head. But I whacked a blacktail last fall with a tuff head and the arrow exited through the sternum. Almost zero blood and a marathon tracking job!

Offline monterey

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2018, 03:11:36 PM »
Well if you're gonna put a stop to everyone pontificating that "my way is the best way" with little or no empirical evidence, other than they once went to a sorority mixer and spoke to Fred Bear's great niece once removed then you're going to put at least four traditional archery sites that I can think of out of business, lol!

LOL :)
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Offline snakebit40

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2018, 03:26:56 PM »
I’ve shot animals with a big three blades, big two blades, and smaller single bevels. I’ve had great blood trails with all, and not so great with all but one. The big two blade (Tree shark) has always performed pretty well. I’ve had instances where the penetration wasn’t the best, and I blame that on me not getting it sharp enough. The big 3 blades are great, but again can’t get them shaving sharp. So I just don’t have the confidence in them. That brings me to the single beveled Cutthroat. I get these hair popping sharp every time. So that’s the head of choice for me. I have total confidence that if I do my part, I will have a good blood trail and short recovery.
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Offline shankspony

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2018, 04:21:08 PM »
Totally agree!

The most important factor, I think is that the Arrow broadhead combo shoots well and you have confidence in it. And that your arrow is as sharp as can be.
I remember trying the new super duper single bevel everyone in nz was recommending on a big boar, then putting an Aztec through next to it and getting a bit more penetration. After that I just use the arrow that flies the best.

Offline Kevin Dill

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2018, 04:43:13 PM »
The last thing I'd ever do is tell someone their broadhead of choice should be x brand with x characteristics. Choose your own and use it.

I shoot single bevel heads and have for many years. The last 6 whitetails I've killed never made it out of sight. Neither did my last black bear. Every one of the Alaska-Yukon bulls (moose) I've killed dropped within easy sight. I like to say that blood trails don't matter if you don't need them, but of course I understand many animals will need to be trailed after the shot. Accuracy trumps everything else in a killing shot. Do I think single bevels are 'better' than doubles? I can't say for sure, but I can tell you I always will be found shooting the head I think will do the best possible job for me on the game I'm hunting. I always have said, let results speak for themselves and don't sweat what others think. Hunt hard.

Offline swampwalker

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2018, 05:48:47 PM »
Olddog X 2  :clapper:

Offline mec lineman

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2018, 06:51:30 PM »
i agree with all of the above posts, i mainly hunt whitetails so normal i opt for a wider head. I will say this about razor sharp Grizzlies, the animals seem to react less at impact versus a wider 2 or 3 blade and i think that is one of the reasons some animals die in sight.i like most have witnessed all kinds of blood trails and lack of.  i currently shoot Wensel woodsmans and sharks. if i try anything else it will be a 200gr. cut throat.
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Online Tim Finley

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2018, 07:35:51 PM »
Trumpkin great thread Ive been waiting for someone to come up with this . Lots of good replies but no one has said if you shoot an animal with a 4 blade you are shooting them twice compared to a 2 blade or one and a half times with a 3 blade . I decided in the 90s that I wouldn't use 2 blade heads anymore and started using Snuffers or Woodsmens and I still use the old Razorhead on occasion , the end results were less animals lost especially on marginal hits and lots better blood trails.

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Re: Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2018, 08:49:03 PM »
Trouble is the woodsman  and vpa heads have no width either.  May as well shoot a Montec.

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