Single Bevel Hype and The Missing Blood trails

[Terry Green]

Huh.  I never realized the blood trails that I typically get using single bevel heads was that poor!  Of course, if you are hitting animals in the guts and intestines you are not going to get a good blood trail regardless of what you are using.

John....here's my take on that....there is a thread on here started  by Guru...'Do you shoot too far forward or too far back?....I want to think it was above 80% for too far back...what ever the %age was it was OVERWHELMING.  Too far back is way more likely to be the 'worst case' scenario than too far forward.

Here is what I have found, from tracking not just my animals but my friends, Camp buddies on multiple leases, and dozen and dozens of 'group' hunts, most of which occurred right here on TG  ....

I want to shoot the BEST broad head for the most occurring by far 'worst case scenario' as this has been my experiences .....

Gut shot....yes, you can argue all you want but a 4 blade or a Snuffer will leak more blood on a gut shot, and more than once I've seen multi blades pull out intestines that get caught on brush and leave a trail...and the end of the intestine trail the blood was better.  The multi blades will cut more surface and just about every pass through I've seen, the broad the non-same entrance and exit wound shot blade rotation, I can't remember a time when it didn't show.  Also, the multi blade will cut more surface through the guts and release more toxins putting the animal down faster cause it makes him sicker quicker....and no need to worry about bone on a accidental most frequent worst case scenario of shooting too far back. Putting them down with more toxins of an unfortunate gut shot again, not only happens much more frequent than too far forward, is best for both you AND the game as a most frequent worst case scenario is going to kill the animal.  So, I want every advantage I can get, and the animal is going to go down and die anyway, so it better for the animal as well.

Now, that being said, I am NOT knocking 2 blades, they certainly have a place in some folks quiver, and I have had great blood trails the times I have used wide 2 blades....and one deer I killed with a narrow Badger head(story is a thread called 'from top to bottom' or 'the upside down shot...and that doe only made two hops and killed over.....I'm very proud of that shot I had to 'manufacture' and the results of such.

Again...I'm not busting anyone's chops....just relating some facts and experiences I've had in over 3 decades.

 

[Sam McMichael]

The circle continues. Some continue to insist that single bevel is the only way to go and others insist that is not necessarily the case. Has anybody's mind actually been changed by all this rhetoric?

[Roger Norris]

The circle continues. Some continue to insist that single bevel is the only way to go and others insist that is not necessarily the case. Has anybody's mind actually been changed by all this rhetoric?

I don't know if changing minds is the point. Education, I would say. I enjoy reading others experiences with different broadheads,different tracking situations. I have been at this a long time, and I still learn something new, something to consider, every day. I can completely disagree with someone, yet learn from thier experience.

[Terry Green]

The circle continues. Some continue to insist that single bevel is the only way to go and others insist that is not necessarily the case. Has anybody's mind actually been changed by all this rhetoric?

Not sure Sam, but it has some people thinking for sure....and I"m sure there are some new comers finding out what they think they should use....and THAT is a good thing.  Like I said, I am not knocking SB 2 blades.

Oh, and John, thanks for the reply on the scapulas. Do you think that a 45 to 48# bow would have done the same?...thanks.

[Sam McMichael]

OK, you make a valid point. I agree with you.

[GCook]

I've enjoyed the info exchanged and the different broadheads discussed.  Some I had not heard of.

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[Howitser]

Since '74 I've used Razorheads, Satellite's ( anyone remember them?) which were very disappointing. Then went to Z's Black Diamonds and used them and Eskimos since.
Recently read the good Dr's single bevel report and picked up Z's No- Mercy's in left SB. 
Great debate here and hopefully by the end of the season and a few deer harvested I too will have my own opinions.
Thanks guys, good forum

[SwampRabbit]

The forward/back misses argument, I must admit, has me thinking...

If you divide the deer/hog up into three zones... back, middle, and forward... combine that with what your hit rates are, and then match it against which broadhead performs best in those zones, and factor in your arrow momentum... it does paint a interesting picture.

Almost like playing the shift in baseball...

Single bevel and narrow is optimal forward. Multiblade and wide is optimal back. And right in the middle..... well lots work.

But you only get to chose 1 head when you let it fly... so whats it gonna be? Seems a wider 2 blade covers your feild, although not optimal for any of the 3... it covers you pretty well.

I do think however, what really aids in recovery is making good decisions and executing good shots. I know lots of proven, effecient trad hinters... and neither thier choice of bow, arrow, or broadhead are the common denominator.

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[Terry Green]

Yes sir Swamp I hear you I will say that you can execute the perfect shot but the animal can take a step and and they are going to take a step forward many many many more times than a step backwards.

I also believe and if folks would spend more time really practicing there shot rather than tinkering.  there would be a lot more consistent, and their Harvest due to the consistency in there execution of a shot.

Good stuff guys....

[Markp]

12 Grizzlies SB, 155 grain,  and 200 target points, 160 grain, were dropped off at my house today, so I am in the SB camp.  I like the three "circle" zones on deer, and I want to have a chance of stopping a deer with a marginal towards the shoulder hit. Note: most of the "155" grains are 150.something grains...

Analyzing my arrow kills, I would have benefitted from the SB, assuming it does penetrate and work the bone apart. Btw, been analyzing about three years now, while using 125 gr. Z Eskimos.   

I worked a 53-55 pound primitive bow that has killed down to around 44 today.  That means I need effective ammo.

These threads are golden as many have harvested way more than me.  Thanks for sharing your insights.  I am a good tracker, so I will suffer the poorer blood trail for a possibility of better chances with a bone hit.

However, Mr Green's logic is also sound. 

[SwampRabbit]

Yes sir Swamp I hear you I will say that you can execute the perfect shot but the animal can take a step and and they are going to take a step forward many many many more times than a step backwards.

I also believe and if folks would spend more time really practicing there shot rather than tinkering.  there would be a lot more consistent, and their Harvest due to the consistency in there execution of a shot.

Good stuff guys....

Here is something else to consider. I agree an animal is more likely to take a step forward. But I have also seen that shooters tend to miss to a certain side more than others. For instance, I tend to miss left more than I am to the right. And so, the direction an animal faces plays a role in if they get hit front/back on a "missed shot".

That being said, I personally try not to account for that, as I dont want to setup a shot thinking I will miss, but in hindsight, after reflecting on poor shots, I tend to notice my forward shots have been on critters facing to the left...



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[Squirrel Hunter]

I don't think many would disagree that, on average, a narrow 2 blade will penetrate better , and a wide or multi blade head will put more blood on the ground, assuming full penetration. I think the more useful discussion is about single vs double bevel performance. Personally, I've killed a bunch of animals with SB Grizzlys and with the vary similar DB Ribteks, and I've noticed no difference in either penetration or blood trails. Does anyone have different experience, comparing similar SB vs DB heads?

[Bowwild]

Over the past nearly 50 years I can't blame the loss of a single animal on the broad head I was using. I can blame EXTREME difficulty to tune with some of the early heads.

I've tinkered a lot over the years.  When I returned to recurves in 2010 I was introduced to a single bevel (Helix). I wasn't completely sold. However, I watched a video where this broad head was used. The video wasn't shot for the broad head, it was just part of a TV show. But, the deer leaving was gushing blood. Impressed me (but I'm quite impressionable).

Of the last 6 deer I'v killed and a bear, I have needed a blood trail only once, the others dropped in sight. I will say my blood trail, or ability to find it, was pretty tough on that one. I can't say a multiple blade head would have yielded differently.

I could go back to other broad heads without missing a beat. Sharp, tuned, and placement (in reverse order) is key.

I'm not a millennial.  That's why I waited days to post this reply. I pretended it was snail-mail.

[BowHunterGA]

Personally I have seen great blood trails from double bevel heads and single bevel heads. Likewise I have seen both good an bad from single bevel heads. I still shoot both today. I love STOS and Magnus double bevel heads and I love Magnus and Grizzly single bevel heads. Sometimes things can't be easily explained.

All that said, I have no doubt in my mind that I have recovered animals because of the effect of single bevel heads that would have been lost with double bevel. The most vivid was my antelope from 2016. Not sure if it was the sound coming from inside the blind or what but he spun into the arrow resulting in a forward shot and that single bevel broke both shoulders and stopped just short of exit. Was the shot perfectly placed? No, but when it left the bow it was headed to the right place.

I see a lot of these types of discussions on forums and social media and here are a few thoughts I will throw out..

1) Proper shot placement should always be assumed when discussing broadhead effectiveness.
2) With #1 said, I am a firm believer that the best arrow setup is the one that performs well when things go less than perfect. Not much will make up for a really bad shot but the right arrow can make a huge difference when the shot is marginal.
3) I want to shoot the arrow setup that gives me the best opportunity for a pass through on any ethical angle. (I will not shoot head on or quartering too) I want to know I can shoot steep quartering and still get an exit through the off shoulder. 2 holes are just always better than 1 for leaving a blood trail.